Victoria Osteen and FBI have different views on what occurred aboard airliner

Houston Chronicle ^ | 12-22-05 | ANNE MARIE KILDAY

[no dems]

"Ephesians 4:9 refers to the grave."

If that is true, then why is Paul's other reference (1 Cor. 15:55) to the grave not called "the lower parts of the earth"? When speaking of the "grave", he said "grave".

Abraham's bosom was NOT Hell; it was the New Testament equivalent of Paradise, a "holding place" if you will until the redemptive work of Christ was finished.

Both of you brothers have a Merry Christmas and a Happy and Blessed New Year.

[no dems]

In this picture, does she look high? A little tipsy maybe or what?

[Hand em their arse]

"Exactly. Substitute Victoria with Tuh-RAY-zuh Heinz Kerry and FReepers cutting this woman slack would be singing a different tune."


You're probably right, we would... But, the fact that "John" Kerry hasn't done a thing to strengthen my relationship with God, makes the comparison apples and oranges...

I saw Joel live at Nassaue COliseum a few months back, and he was phenomenal, as was the whole event. And by the way, ticket prices..... $10 a seat

[no dems]

"And then you make a prejudiced statement about him flying first class!"

Uh huh. All in the Name of a Man who said: "Foxes have holes, birds have nests but I have no place to lay my head."

Oh yeah, right! Jesus would have flown first class and shown his butt over a spilled beverage (?) delaying the other passengers for 2 hours because he was a religious celebrity. Yeah, right!

[fortheDeclaration]

You mis-read all those verses. Ephesians 4:9 refers to the grave.

It does?

And he took 'captivity captive from the grave'

Is God the God of the living or the dead ? (Matthew 22:32)

1 Peter 3:19 a) is not chronologically lined up within the 3 days that Christ was in the grave. b) "prison" in this verse does NOT mean hell.

1Pet. lines up with Eph.4:8-9.

Christ's Soul was in 'Hell' for the three days His body was in the tomb.

Hell is a prison that has captives (Eph.4, Isa.14:17) and gates (Matthew 16),

Luke chapter 16: I don't find Christ's journey to hell as you've described it, nor do I find the Bible describe "Abraham's bosom" as hell. What is your source?

In Luke 16 you will see the in the story of the rich man and Lazarius how hell was composed before Christ's Resurrection.

In vs.23 the place is called hell.

It had two compartments, 'torments' (vs.24) and Abraham's Bosom.(vs.22) where Lazarus was 'comforted'(vs.25)

OT Saints went to Abraham's Bosom to await their redemption.

Those who rejected the Gospel (as given in the OT) went to torments.

The Captives freed in Eph.4 came from Abraham's Bosom.

Saints who die today go directly to heaven.

Those who reject the Gospel still go to torments to await the Great White Throne Judgement (Rev.20) when they will then be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Many who preach Christ went to hell claim that's where He paid the penalty for our sins. And THAT is the HUGE heresy - that I should have mentioned in my previous post. - not anything that may have happened after He died.

Yes. That is a heresy.

Christ said it was finished on the Cross.(Jn.19:30)

The sins of the world were judged while Christ hung on the Cross. Christ paid for all our sins on the cross (Rom. 5-6)

[sgtbono2002]

I chose to be a Firefighter. A very rewarding job. although the rewards are more from performing a good job and doing a service to the community than they are monetary. The pay isnt bad, but you dont fly to Vail in 1st. class with it. Nor could you afford much when you get there.

[fortheDeclaration]

Both of you brothers have a Merry Christmas and a Happy and Blessed New Year.

Thank You. You also.

[socal_parrot]

The seats were ten bucks? How much was the snake oil?

[sgtbono2002]

I am far from a loser in fact I am a pretty happy man.. I see you assume a lot in calling me a loser, May I assume you are an ass?

[Okies love Dubya 2]

Put me down for the German Shepherd!

AMEN!

[Zack Nguyen]

I sure cant afford a 1st class ticket to Vail much less the costs once I get there. Preaching makes millionaires of some folks.

I don't especially care for Joel Osteen or his preaching, but I have no idea if he is a "millionaire." He is the head man of a massive church and ministry that reaches millions of people. He has written best selling books. If he is wealthier than average and wants to fly first class then I will not begrudge him.

[chuckles]

Jesus Himself had no problem with rich people. The rich had problems with Jesus. The Bible tells us it's the "love" of money, not the having it that is the problem. There are many poor people that "love" money and rich who could care less. If making money is wrong then the pope is the greatest sinner. Catholics have more money than any denomination and I seem to remember a couple of books being sold.

I'm not bashing Catholics or taking up for Osteen( because I think he is a heretic), I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy here at FR. IN order to be saved on FR, you must listen to a man from a homeless shelter with a sandwich sign that say's "the end is nigh" on it.I believe a man will be judged on his works if he claims Christ as Savior. If Osteen's books can bring someone to Christ, more power to him. Remember Paul was told of a preacher that was preaching wrongly in Paul's name and Paul just said He was just glad Jesus was being discussed. Paul wasn't disturbed because it's not about Paul. If that's the case then all the people that came to Christ under the PTL club, Jimmy Swaggart, et al, would have to be re saved. It doesn't matter who told you about Christ as long as Christ is glorified. It's personal between you and Christ. If Osteen makes a buck on it, then that's between him and Jesus. I believe Jesus alows us to have the money He wants us to have. It's how we use it that determines if we get any more. Money can be a God send or a homewrecker. I believe God can "punish" you with money. Just look at the rich in therapy.

If I asked you for a shirt because mine was lost in the storm, would you rummage through the "Goodwill" sack, or go to your closet and get your favorite shirt? That's what Jesus was talking about "loving your possessions" He knew the only weakness the "Rich Young Ruler" couldn't do, so that's what Jesus asked him to do, give away his possessions. He was pious in all other respects, but Jesus cut to the chase and confronted him with his weakness. The other disciples gave away everything, Jobs, family, everything in their old life for a new one in Christ.

[stopem]

I agree, she could have requested a clean seat. Maybe she or her children spilled the drink.

Point remains that she had no right acting as she did over a little bit of spilled drink. She did not act becoming to someone who is married to one of the most visible Preacher in the U.S.

Plus there are rules the airline personnel have to abide by she is not above the law. She acted like a spoiled brat.

[marshmallow]

Nah. They're having services on Christmas Day. I checked.

Thanks.

In that case I apologize to Mr. Osteen.

My criticism of his petulant wife, however, stands.

[TexanToTheCore]

There are 7,000 churches in Houston with average membership of 280 per.

Neither Lakewood nor Second Baptist Church of Houston have anything remotely close to a monopoly.

I swear, at times it seems that every shopping center in Houston has a storefront church.

[TexanToTheCore]

"the Salvation Army head gets the least, but I think it's a few hundred thousand."

I believe the figure is 13,000 plus housing.

[Mother of the Bride]

I work for an airline. One of my jobs is to meet the plane. It is common for seat cusions to have to be replaced because passengers pee in the seats. The liquid in Mrs. Osteens seat was very likely urine. There are also a lot of bitchy flight attendants. I do not blame her at all for not sitting in that seat. I also believe that given the number of trips they make for speaking engagements, they very likely are elite members and would have their tickets automatically upgraded to 1st Class by the airline.

[MineralMan]

"I swear, at times it seems that every shopping center in Houston has a storefront church.
"

I thought all the churches were closed. Shoot, from some of the messages here on FR, you'd think there weren't any more churches left, with the attack on Christianity so big.

[TexanToTheCore]

"I thought all the churches were closed. Shoot, from some of the messages here on FR, you'd think there weren't any more churches left, with the attack on Christianity so big."


No,no. New churches are springing up all over. I have never as many churches as are in Houston.

[tuffydoodle]

"It is common for seat cusions to have to be replaced because passengers pee in the seats. The liquid in Mrs. Osteens seat was very likely urine. There are also a lot of bitchy flight attendants. I do not blame her at all for not sitting in that seat. I also believe that given the number of trips they make for speaking engagements, they very likely are elite members and would have their tickets automatically upgraded to 1st Class by the airline."

Now the entire situation is making more sense, why no one involved wants to talk about it, etc. Thanks for posting this information.