Posted on 01/04/2005 2:34:33 PM PST by churchillbuff
"A strictly orthodox Catholic has to be a very deft conversationalist to get into most seminaries nowadays."
Or they need to know someone who can prepare them with the "right" answers before they go through the process.
Of course. If I don't agree with you about a changeable Church discipline, I must be a modernist. That's cheap, patent, and you're above that.
You have discussed the issue online with a number of us, and we don't all have that reaction.
FR tends, both politically and religiously, to be further to the right than both the American population and the Catholic population. The fact is, surveys among Catholics, for 25 years, have shown that the American Catholic population favors opening the priesthood to married men.
"Me too. I've often thought about it. But it can put a strain on a marriage."
Think about it again. The divorce rate among deacons worldwide is only about 0.5% - you have a much better chance of your marriage lasting if you become a deacon!!!
;)
Vocations are not growing in the West. The American Church would require over 800 ordinations a year (twice the current number) just to keep up with the loss of priests who leave, die or retire from active ministry.
Vocations are growing in Africa, where no person who works for the Church starves and gets a respectable position in the community.
And the Church wonders why it has so little credibility among Catholics! Replace a priest who leaves to get married with a married priest!
The largest parish in the diocese of Fort Worth (over 6000 families registered) is staffed by a married pastor, a celibate associate, and two married deacons.
"celibate men tend to devote more time to the Lord than married men.
That's very debatable! :^)"
Do you think that its only when you get on the other side of the fence, that you find out how very little most of them actually do?!!!
"Considering how many rites with optional celibacy are still in communion with Rome, however, why shouldn't men with vocations both to the priesthood and to marriage simply change rites?"
The Vatican's already wise to that one - it takes at least 7 years for a clergyman to transfer rites within the Church!
Permanent deacons are proof that there are plenty of mature married men who will serve the Church. The ONLY things a priest can do that a deacon can't is hear confessions and celebrate the Eucharist. In many parishes, deacons are full time on staff, and often work harder and longer than the priests they serve alongside.
Certain members of the hierarchy tell you that mandatory celibacy is important to the priesthood, but the rationale for requiring it of Latin Rite priests is becoming thin, especially since every other of the 22 rites in the Church allow married men to enter the priesthood.
The lack of vocations has nothing to do with celibacy and everything to do with liberalism. To use a small example, my sister attends a conservative parish in her archdiocese, where the pastor is from Eastern Europe. At this parish, there are no altar girls, almost all boys become altar boys, and the parish has students currently in the seminary. The altar boys are exposed to the priesthood and, as a consequence, think seriously about it as a vocation.
By contrast, far larger and wealthier parishes in the archdiocese produce no vocations, because the boys aren't given the same exposure to the priesthood and never think seriously about it as a vocation.
The pattern repeats itself on a larger scale: more conservative dioceses and orders are blessed with vocations, and more liberal dioceses and orders are not. In fact, conservative candidates expressing an interest in the priesthood are often turned away.
I was thinking more about transferring before seminary. Or are they on to that, too? : )
The priests I work with are good men, but they take very few evening appointments, insisting that they need that time to "read, meditate, and prepare homilies."
We have laymen prepping people for baptism, prepping people for marriage, working marriage cases, and even have a counselor on staff four nights a week. Some days, the priests barely work bankers' hours.
I am not wise enough much less spiritually blessed enough to take a strong position on the abandonment of celibacy.
I can say this, having had the experience of any convert, a married pastor introduces a whole new set of potential problems.
I remember reading about Paul Weyrich, the noted conservative, who wanted to change to the Byzantine Rite and become a deacon. After submitting his request to Rome, he had to wait several years before getting any kind of response at all.
Sure it does. But there are problems with any kind of life. It's just a matter of what kinds of problems the Church is willing to live with.
After his decision to follow Christ, Peter and his wife "became as brother and sister". That was the second model for pristly celibacy, after Christ himself.
That's apocryphal. Are you getting that from the Gospel of Thomas?
A classic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Cutting off one's nose to spite the face? etc. ;o)
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