Susan L.M. Huck: Vietnam Falls: it is time to establish responsibility

American Opinion (reprinted at jbs.org) ^ | June 1975 | Susan L.M. Huck

[risk]

We are the hollow men We are the stuffed men Leaning together Headpiece filled with straw. Alas! Our dried voices, when We whisper together Are quiet and meaningless As wind in dry grass Or rat's feet over broken glass In our dry cellar Shape without form, shade without color, Paralyzed force, gesture without motion; Those who have crossed With direct eyes, to death's other kingdom Remember us - if at all - not as lost Violent souls, but only As the hollow men The stuffed men. --T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men quoted in Apocalypse Now

It's been 34 years since the Battle of Hamburger Hill as of this week. ABC News claims it was the turning point in the war. Huck makes many accusations here, and she raises even more questions. Just after our victory in Iraq, with the State Department coming under criticism and Israel under pressure to adhere to a new "roadmap for peace," Huck's warnings and recriminations from 1975 sound just as pertinent today. We will not preserve western civilization if we succumb to the self-imposed weaknesses the "conscienses" of American society imposed on our brave men in Vietnam so many years ago.

Never again. Never forget. Never forgive. Long may it wave.

[risk]

President Clinton in Vietnam:

[risk]

(Image from http://currahee.hispeed.com/hamburgerhill.htm)

[risk]

I can't say that I fully understand all of the accusations Huck makes, but they're thought-provoking even today. Ping for Hamburger Hill anniversary. (I was just a wee kid then...)

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

From a Must Visit Site
Vipers Vietnam Veterans Page, A Vietnam Veteran & Proud Web Site
About Vietnam

The Vietnam war was the longest in our nation's history. Two American advisors were killed on July 8, 1959, and the last casualties in connection with the war occurred on May 15, 1975, during the Mayaquez incident. Approximately 2.7 million Americans served in the war zone; 300,000 were wounded and approximately 75,000 permanently disabled. Officially there are still 1,991 Americans unaccounted for from SE Asia.

Vietnam was a savage, in your face war where death could and did strike from anywhere with absolutely no warning. The brave young men and women who fought that war paid an awful price of blood, pain and suffering. As it is said: "ALL GAVE SOME ... SOME GAVE ALL"
The Vietnam war was not lost on the battlefield. No American force in ANY other conflict fought with more determination or sheer courage than the Vietnam Veteran.  For the first time in our history America sent it's young men and women into a war run by inept politicians who had no grasp of military strategies and no moral will to win. They were led by "top brass" who were concerned mainly with furthering their own careers, most neither understood the nature of the war nor had a clue about the impossible mission with which they'd tasked their soldiers.  And the war was reported by a self serving Media who penned stories filled with inaccuracies, deliberate omissions, biased presentations and blatant distorted interpretations because they were more interested in a story than the truth! It can be debated that we should never have fought that war. It can also be argued that the young Americans who fought so courageously, never losing a single major battle, helped in a huge way to WIN THE COLD WAR.

[Destro]

No one has even been fired for the failure of 9/11. It has become such a sickness on the part of the American public to ignore not failure but criminal negligence. We have developed a guilt free culture-without honor. Be it Vietnam, Kosovo, the stock market rip off of the last decade.

We need to hang a lot of people.

[Destro]

Thank you-may I ask how u know me to ping me?

[SAMWolf]

Thanks for the Ping risk.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

...What a wondrous gift to be alive in a new Century of FREEDOM...

...as President BUSH has now promised its Return to Communist Vietnam, N. Korea and Cuba...

...as our best defense against future terrorist attacks.


Signed:..ALOHA RONNIE Guyer / Vet-U.S. 7th Cavalry's Opening Days of the Vietnam War 1965-66

http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_collection.htm

[ALOHA RONNIE]

NEVER FORGET


..VIETNAM was a NOBLE CAUSE despite HILLARY RODHAM...

http://www.TheAlamoFILM.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=314


NEVER FORGET

[ALOHA RONNIE]

NEVER FORGET


...With her aiding HO CHI MINH's Communist Victory over Freedom during the Vietnam War:


.."IS it SAFE?" = HILLARY on Armed Services Committee..

http://www.TheAlamoFILM.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=629


NEVER FORGET

[risk]

Thank you-may I ask how u know me to ping me?

I've seen your comments before, and I figured you'd have something to contribute. And you did.

I agree with your comment above -- the 9/11 investigations should be conducted with independence, and they should receive strong support from both the public and from all three branches of our government. I can accept apologies, but a failure to account for the senior descisions to ignore al Qaida's threat for years, the ones who removed traditional AAA (anti-aircraft weapons) from our city gates, and those in power who failed to scramble our jets in time to stop the second and third attacks -- all of those things should be reckoned. Without the accounting for these sins, future mistakes will come all the more easily.

But isn't the deeper question one that Huck raises, and echoed by the T.S. Elliot poem? Isn't it possible that we are divided against ourselves at a much more profound level than mere incompetence?

In any case, why do we think that the brutal force of our military establishment can be "restrained" in order to acheive justice? I am not asking for any man's conscience to be nullified; the military men I know have deeper consciences than most civilians. But of course our forces must remain under civilian control, and perhaps that is the root of the paradox -- some of our civillians have lost their will to defend our revolution and our republic. Some of them are ready to apologize for the bulwark for liberty we've established on the bones of a million patriots. Some of us harbor sick and wicked doubts that the capitalist American republic is superior to the Marxist-communist dialectic. And now, some of us fail to recognize the bitter challenge Islam is presenting western civilization, preferring to hold back our will to isolate, unmask, and strip it of its wicked force to destroy all in its path.

If America falls, 10, 20, 100, 500 years from now -- it will be due to imposed impotence within. We will be mortally wounded by those who have lost their faith in freedom, hollow men paralyzing the forces for liberty that fairly boil in the rest of us. America will not fall because we were incapable of meeting the evil without; it will be due to the straw men within America, whose eyes are dead already, who no longer yearn for their own personal independence, let alone that of any others.

[SAMWolf]

In any case, why do we think that the brutal force of our military establishment can be "restrained" in order to acheive justice? I am not asking for any man's conscience to be nullified; the military men I know have deeper consciences than most civilians. But of course our forces must remain under civilian control, and perhaps that is the root of the paradox -- some of our civillians have lost their will to defend our revolution and our republic. Some of them are ready to apologize for the bulwark for liberty we've established on the bones of a million patriots. Some of us harbor sick and wicked doubts that the capitalist American republic is superior to the Marxist-communist dialectic. And now, some of us fail to recognize the bitter challenge Islam is presenting western civilization, preferring to hold back our will to isolate, unmask, and strip it of its wicked force to destroy all in its path.

Very good and right on the money IMHO.

[risk]

It can also be argued that the young Americans who fought so courageously, never losing a single major battle, helped in a huge way to WIN THE COLD WAR.

I agree! It was Reagan's speech at the Brandenburg Gate June 12, 1987, and the results of it that helped me to understand that. He said, "Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!", and it happened!

As I looked out a moment ago from the Reichstag, that embodiment of German unity, I noticed words crudely spray-painted upon the wall, perhaps by a young Berliner: "This wall will fall. Beliefs become reality." Yes, across Europe, this wall will fall. For it cannot withstand faith; it cannot withstand truth. The wall cannot withstand freedom.

Why did we ever doubt it? The doubt is a sharper arrow, a more poisoned spear than any dirty bomb, any thermo-nuclear MIRV, any bioweapon.

[Destro]

This is a civilian problem not a military one. We need to bring to account lots of leaders. MacNamara is still a free man? Who invented the fake Gulf of Tonkin incedent? They are still free men? Shame on the American people for not rising up in anger--were were free men once--we are now sheep.

[risk]

Note to self:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:cfr.org+vietnam
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:cfr.org+asia
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:cfr.org+mideast http://www.google.com/search?q=site:cfr.org+iraq

[VOA]

America will not fall because we were incapable of meeting the evil without;
it will be due to the straw men within America, whose eyes are dead already,
who no longer yearn for their own personal independence, let alone that of any others.

YEARS AGO, I saw a documentary (PBS?) on TV about the Etruscans.
The Etruscans often carved likeness of the departed on their grave stones/sites.
IIRC, the archeologists have found that when the Estruscan culture was in full
bloom, the grave sculptures showed happy, enthusiatic likenesses of the
departed souls.

In contrast, the grave sculptures from the times when the Romans were overtaking
and pressuring the Etruscans show likenesses of people that any human would
recognize as tired, dispirited and resigned to their fate.

This historical observation is one reason I don't despair when there
is heated debate in our country and even when huge amounts of expenditures
are made for ambitious projects, whether it is attempting to reach the Moon,
combat world-wide terror networks, etc.

I figure this reflects a culture/society with the happy, upbeat demeanor of
the early Etruscans.
And I hope it goes on and on and on as long as possible.

[risk]

Maybe that's why there's something so satisfying about being able and willing to say to our enemies: "BRING IT ON!" Maybe there's some Etruscan in me. Speaking of the ancients, our war in Vietnam reminds me of another time when brave men sacrificed themselves so that a great state could defend itself more effectively. Famous words:

Go tell the Spartans, travelers passing by, that here, obedient to their laws we lie. --Epigram carved on the tomb of Leonidas's Three Hundred.

There couldn't be truer words to describe our fallen in Vietnam.

[P.O.E.]

It can also be argued that the young Americans who fought so courageously, never losing a single major battle, helped in a huge way to WIN THE COLD WAR.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

Thanks!