Replies

Theories

One theory has the second part of Custer's command, probably Yates' battalion with two companies, advanced down Medicine Tail Coulee, and was either met by overwhelming force and driven to Battle Ridge, or was recalled by the firing from Keogh's battalion on Nye-Cartwright Ridge. The two battalions rejoined near Battle Ridge, continued north into the present area of the national cemetery, and were finally driven back to Battle Ridge. On the ridge, Lieutenant James Calhoun with Company L, was positioned in an area on the south end of the ridge (now called Calhoun Hill) where that company died, according to contemporary evidence, in skirmish line formation. Keogh and Company I were found on the eastern slope of the Ridge somewhat "in a bunch" which is in accord with some Indian accounts. This theory further places Companies E and C in skirmish line below the Last Stand area and Company F generally surrounding Custer and the headquarters unit on Last Stand Hill. The markers below the Calhoun position allegedly represent troopers shot down, or cut off, as the battalion made its way to its final destruction.

Another theory has Yates' battalion reconnoitering the ford at the mouth of Medicine Tail while Keogh's battalion positioned themselves on Nye-Cartwright Ridge, presumptively waiting for Benteen and the packs. Both commands then rejoined on Calhoun Hill. From there Yates' battalion moved northward as far as the flat land north and west of the Battle Ridge while Keogh's battalion remained on Calhoun Hill to await the arrival of Benteen and to cover the Medicine Tail approaches. These two battalions were then separately engaged by large numbers of Sioux and Cheyenne. Keogh's battalion died first: Company C on the lower slopes of the ridge in the Greasy Grass Ridge area; Company L on Calhoun Hill; and Company I on the eastern slope. The battalion with Custer attained the final stand position where it succumbed to the fire power of the Indian force.

Modifications and combinations of both approaches exists, and the scholar will have to arrive at an independent conclusion about any of them. The recent archaeological studies have made clear that although the Sioux and Cheyenne were not uniformly armed with rifles and pistols, there were far more firearms present than previously believed. The cartridge casings provided the evidence of a far larger number of repeating rifles among the Indian weaponry. These casings also indicate that the flow of battle moved from the Calhoun position to the Last Stand area. Furthermore, the Indian armament would have steadily improved as carbines, pistols and ammunition were taken from the dead.

I was at the Little Bighorn Battlefield a couple of years ago and spent quite a bit of time there. I also went to the Rosebud Battlefield area not far away.

I am fascinated by a puzzle. I have never heard anyone answer the question. There were more than two hundred soldiers killed at the LBH. Each soldier was issued a "trapdoor" Springfield carbine in .45-70 caliber. Each soldier also carried a Colt's Model 1873 Single Action Army pistol with a 7.5 inch barrel, in .45 caliber. The indians stripped and mutilated everyone killed (with Custer the exception on mutilation). The indians took the clothes and equipment. The question?

Where are the guns?

To my knowledge, not one of more than two hundred carbines and pistols, taken from the battlefield by the indians, has ever surfaced. One account of an old Cheyenne grandfather(a boy during the battle period) said specially-chosen Cheyenne warriors took the guns and hid them in a place sacred to the Cheyenne. If true, the guns must still be there.

Indian accounts indicate they feared being caught by pursuing cavalry with any looted equipment carrying 7th Cavalry markings.

If ever found, the guns would have enormous value.

I saw a rifle at a gun show documented to have been picked up from the battlefield apparently during burial of bodies and under supervision of Capt. Benteen. That rifle was for sale for something in excess of $100,000.

I find the missing guns to be an interesting lost treasure.

A few tid bits from PBS.org site on Little Big Horn.

In 1874 Custer leads 1200 men onto the Blackhills of the Lakota.
This became the offense which found its enevitable counter.
The U.S. Government had ceeded the Black Hills to the Lakota 6 years before...such an obvious action of 1200 armed calvary being on treaty land meant the U.S. would not keep their word..hence the gathering of the Chiefs later.
Custer finds himself at odds with Grant in a legal testimony in 1875...he is relieved of duty by Grant for his unco-operative words.
Grant comes under pressure afterwards..and reluctantly restores Custer to command...and sends him out west..to his destiny.
For all the movement of the days battle at the LBH..and its movement a day prior..Custer clearly had disobeyed the plan agree'd upon with Crook and Gibbons.
Ranging to far ahead...Custer did not know that General Crook was turned back by the Indians at Rosebud creek.
Custer had isolated himself..and had no idea the numbers in his vicinty.
Custer was a great soldier..no doubt..his civil war history tends to be overshadowed by the Indian wars.
But war is movement in the field....Custer commited the gravest of errors...isolating himself in un reconned territory.

George Crook (1828-1890) Considered the army's greatest Indian fighter, General George Crook earned that reputation by developing a respect for his enemy that carried over into his relationships with Native Americans off the battlefield as well. Born in 1828 into an Ohio farming family, Crook graduated from West Point in 1852 near the bottom of his class. He spent the first part of his military career in Northern California and Oregon fighting several Indian peoples and learning how to operate under frontier conditions that left his troops short of supplies but well-provisioned with hair-trigger, often hare-brained local volunteers. The outbreak of the Civil War in 1861 brought him back east, where he served in guerilla actions in West Virginia and at the battles of Second Bull Run and Chickamauga. After the war, Crook returned to the Pacific Northwest, waging a two-year campaign against the Paiute. His success led to President Ulysses S. Grant personally placing Crook in charge of the Arizona Territory, where beginning in 1871 he waged a successful campaign to force the Apache onto reservations. The hallmarks of this campaign, as of his broader general career, were his extensive use of Indian scouts, his relentless pursuit of Indians on their own territory and his readiness to negotiate rather than force conflict. Having accomplished his mission in Arizona, Crook was transferred to the northern Plains in 1875, where he was first given the impossible task of removing a rapidly growing hoard of gold miners from the Black Hills. By 1876, he was part of a coordinated attack designed to drive the defiant Lakota bands gathered around Sitting Bull back onto their reservations. In this campaign his troops were forced to retreat from Lakota and Cheyenne warriors led by Crazy Horse in a battle at Rosebud Creek, a defeat that denied reinforcements to George Armstrong Custer and may have contributed to his devastating loss at the Little Bighorn. In 1882 Crook again returned to Arizona, where the Apache had fled their reservation and resumed their guerrilla war under the Chiricahua leader, Geronimo. Over the next four years, Crook repeatedly forced his adversary to surrender, only to see him retreat into the mountains. Finally, in 1886, Crook was relieved of command and saw his long-time rival, General Nelson A. Miles, bring an end to the long Apache war by exiling Geronimo and his band to Florida. The campaign against Geronimo was the last in Crook's military career. He remained a senior officer, but during his last years campaigned vigorously on his lifelong enemy's behalf, speaking out against white encroachments on Indian land and attempting to persuade the Lakota to accept allotment of their reservation, which Crook (like many others) believed would speed their entry into the American mainstream. According to the Lakota chief Red Cloud, a one-time adversary, Crook "never lied to us. His words gave the people hope." Crook died on March 2, 1890.

*************** Gene Hackman plays General Crook in the movie "Geronimo" with Wes Studi,Jason Patrick and Robert Duvall.
This is a must see movie for those who follow the history of the Indian wars.

The Western Civilization Military History ping list.

Sphinx; Toirdhealbheach Beucail; curmudgeon II; roderick; Notforprophet; river rat; csvset; Texican; denydenydeny; Polybius; Chuckster; MattinNJ; newguy357; San Jacinto; bert; Rebelbase; Duncan Waring; notdownwidems; facedown; BnBlFlag; Lizard_King; concentric circles; Antoninus; FreedomPoster; 11 Bush; Mike Fieschko; tet68; PAR35; Sir Charles; mark_interrupted; prophetic; .577 Tyrannosaur; dcwusmc; Rightwing Conspiratr1; HighRoadToChina; Freedom_Is_Not_Free; Pookie Me; VaBthang4; Republicangel; Aggie Mama; Galloping Ghost; g'nad; johnny7; Buckhead; Maedhros; Johnny Ridden; weikel; Chancellor Palpatine; gundog; BrowningBAR; spetznaz; JMJ333; Rodney King; Semaphore Heathcliffe; JamesWilson; power2; ASOC; Andy Ross; gridlock; MoGalahad; walkingdead; F-117A; section9; archy; CapandBall; Grizzly Bear; an amused spectator; tom paine 2; Warhammer; RushLake; dutchess; happygrl; SAMWolf; drjoe; KantianBurke; stop_fascism; ~Peter; onedoug; dennisw; Aquinasfan; RightOnline; TxBec; profmike23; MinuteGal; Witnesstothefall; NWU Army Rotc; snippy_about_it; NormsRevenge; Valin; CreekerFreeper; copycat; larryjohnson

These are the fine men and women on the WCMH ping list. If you want to join them, let me know.