The FReeper Foxhole's TreadHead Tuesday - The A22 Infantry Tank "Churchill" - Mar. 9th, 2004

www.9thrtr.com ^

[SAMWolf]

1893 Congo cannibals killed 1000s of Arabs

Did the Arabs ever get along with anyone?

[SAMWolf]

Morning PE.

[SAMWolf]

LOL! Those look more like "girly" bikes to me.

[SAMWolf]

That looks like the type of sign OSHA rules would require to be put up.

[SAMWolf]

OUCH!

You just had to touch the sign, didn't you?

[SAMWolf]

Great analysis, especially the last paragraph.

[SAMWolf]

Nice Bike!

[SAMWolf]

Morning stand watie.

Free Dixie!

[WhiskeyPapa]

Except for nonsense like this, the Churchill was a pretty good piece of gear, generally superior to the Sherman in armor and fire power.

Well, the six-pounder [57mm gun] versions seem a bit undergunned compared to the Shermans' 75 and 76mm shooters.

The 57 mm had slightly better armor piercing capability than the Sherman 75. The 76mm was better. Sources differ about how many and how fast the 76mm Shermans came online. I read somewhere that @ 1/3 of Shermans were 76mm by the time of the Ardennes offensive.

The armor on the Churchll would keep out fire from the Mk IV tank in the frontal arc at most ranges. Not so the Sherman.

Walt

[SAMWolf]

Morning Darksheare. I think it's more a case of bureaucrats refusing to accept facts from the battlefield and admit they were wrong.

[SAMWolf]

Hi Light Speed.

The Foxhole is going to cover the Centurion early next month.

[Darksheare]

Probably right.
Politicians and bureaucrats have killed more soldiers than any soldier has.

[Light Speed]

Hi carton
This is a good read:

The book which I am unable to recall ..was written with direct survivor Interview from Israels Barak Brigade of the Golan sector during the Yom Kippur War.

A short account of determination under fire.
Yom Kippur war account

Am not certain as research goes for the period of 1967-1973 as per Israeli ordinance.
The Centurion and other IDF tanks fielded the NATO standard 105mm tube.
what is know..is that by 1982..IDF had R&D's the 105 mm round..and enabled it to punch hard at great range by increasing its kinnetic energy profile and flight dynamic.
The IDF 105 mm round could engage a Soviet 120mm T-72 before its target aquistion was workable as distance goes.
The armor of the T-72 was no match for the 105 round...this was especially seen in Lebanon in 1982.
Israels early Merkava series stayed with the 105 tube.
..now decades later..Israel is well into the 120 mm tube with their own design muni's.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Wow, just like World War One.

So was British military thinking in 1944.

LOL!

If you watch the "World at War" episode about the desert war, you'll hear the stentorian tone of Sir Lawrence Oliver intoning something like: "Rommel might have been tempted to echo the words of the Duke of Wellington. 'They came on in the same old way, and we shot them down in the same old way.' "

The British lost @ 470 tanks in five days during Operation GOODWOOD. This after a very heavy attack by Bomber Command.

Eisenhower is reported to have said, "we can't advance to Germany 1,000 tons of bombs at a time." The British had no idea of lifting and shifting their supporting arms or getting any synergy from combined arms - armor, arty and infantry.

Many U.S. units were little better.

Walt

[archy]

Great Britains Gurkhas have of course long been recognized as masters at the art of camouflage.

WOW, they're good. I can't see either the bicycles or tanks.

The tanks are behind the aircraft carrier. The bicycles are cleverly disguised as its wheels.

[Light Speed]

Was reading a short essay on that battle in a WW-2 magazine.
The bombing preceeding the attack saw German Tiger tanks overturned..and nearly buried.
some percentage of the German line strength did buckle under the bombing..from shell shock to near insanity response.
yet the German line was able to regroup and as conveyed by what occured..put a serious hurt on the British mechanized advance.
I guess its a study in weapon performance and the numerics needed to dislodge an entrenched defender..the old..3 or 4-1 odds force/attrition factor.

My Dads cousin Bob arrived D-Day +6.
In no time..his Sherman tank regiment was all but decimated.
Most went up in fireballs..the Ronson lighter comment.

Like so many allied tank units..some percentage were recovered and repaired..new crews and newly arrived tanks.
Later they were off on operation Market Garden.

[4CJ]

It was not the want of cavalry that General Lee bewailed, for he enough of it had it been properly used.

Bump. Stuart was his go-to guy, and the second team was sadly lacking.

[Professional Engineer]

The tanks are behind the aircraft carrier. The bicycles are cleverly disguised as its wheels.

Ah, that explains it. I was in land forces mode, and not thinking about naval hardware.

[carton253]

Stuart was his go-to-guy. The fact that Lee didn't go to Robertson shows that Lee wasn't that worried about being blind. For even the "2nd team" was better than just stumbling about.

Actually, Stuart thought Jones was the "best outpost officer" in his command; and that his watchfulness over his pickets and skill and energy in obtaining information was worthy of all praise. Stuart didn't like Jones personally...and Jones didn't seem to like anyone.

[SAMWolf]

There's a pretty good book called "When God Judged and Men Died" about the Yom Kippur war. Gives a good overview of the war.