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Why Do Conservatives Still Love the Drug War?
Campaign for Liberty ^ | 2010-04-02 | Jacob Hornberger

Posted on 04/04/2010 6:51:11 AM PDT by rabscuttle385

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To: KDD

Great find... And still so appropriate!


161 posted on 04/04/2010 10:20:43 AM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub. III OK)
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To: Manly Warrior
if education is the answer, why make it illegal?


162 posted on 04/04/2010 10:23:07 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: dirtboy

Do you have any idea about the other questions (plural) that I asked RE: Congress?

Can ANYBODY out there give me their take on the 4 questions that I asked in post #139 in this thread?


163 posted on 04/04/2010 10:25:12 AM PDT by ChrisInAR (Alright, tighten your shorts, Pilgrim, & sing like the Duke!)
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To: rabscuttle385
Should we decriminalize?

It seems to me the question is not whether you or I should care about what a third party puts into his body, that is afterall a moral judgment, rather, the question is whether the government should care about what someone puts into his body?

Clearly the government has a constitutional right to regulate and criminalize drugs just as it has the right to regulate food and ethical drugs. The question is not whether it's constitutional but whether it is good public policy.

Seems to me that if a government prohibition on the use of drugs actually eliminated drug use, few except perhaps some aging hippies and top models would argue vehemently against such laws which would redeem so many wretched lives. But experience has shown that government fiat does not eliminate drug use. So the real question is, does government prohibition reduce drug use? And if it does, is the price worth paying? It is not entirely clear that the laws against drug use actually reduce their use because the prohibition itself creates a financial incentive which works to subsidize its use. The government has never found a way to eliminate or reduce drug usage without inserting a profit factor. Worse, the more the government is effective in reducing the inflow of illegal drugs, the more it creates a counter incentive of increased profitability by the law of supply and demand. Perversely, since the drugs tend to be addictive there is a physical compulsion to seek more of the drug and, since government efforts to eliminate it inevitably raise its price, users who are in withdrawal are tempted to finance their habits by becoming dealers. So it is not clear whether the government's efforts to reduce drugs by prohibiting their use actually does more harm than good.

One of the prices we pay for our government's campaign against drugs is certainly a loss of liberty. I tend towards the Libertarian's view that it is none of the government's damn business what I put in my body. However, I recognize that such usage inevitably presents a risk to society. I do not want inebriated drivers plowing into my automobile whether they are drunk on alcohol or drugs. But society has learned a hard lesson, that it is better to make the drunk driving the crime but not the consumption of alcohol itself.

Another price we pay is a loss of privacy. Mandatory testing of both government and private employees is to some degree intrusive. Queries about drug use and application forms are equally intrusive. Undercover agents operating in public bathrooms is an affront to our dignity. Eavesdropping of telephone conversations is unquestionably an invasion of privacy. It is the reduction, or rather the presumed reduction, if any, in the amount of drug usage obtained by these intrusions worth the price?

We pay a great financial price as well. The war on drugs costs us billions of dollars annually in enforcement and incarceration costs. Is this money well spent?

There is an insidious price as well: corruption and its handmaiden, cynicism. Our police, our border agents, our judges, one might say the entire criminal justice apparatus has been infected with a corruption generated by the huge profits to be made-profits which are there only because the government by its policies has created them. Inevitably cynicism results in the whole of the people beginning to despise rather than revere the rule of law.

Because drugs are illegal, the price is high and profits are enormous. Yet we send our boys to fight in Afghanistan to deprive Taliban chieftains of their poppy fields which finance at least indirectly the very terrorism we fight against. Would it not be better simply to eliminate the profits in poppies by legalizing the drug? Is the damage to our foreign policy, like the damage to our precious rule of law, worth what benefit we get from criminalizing drugs use?

On balance, I have to throw my lot in with William F. Buckley and say that the war against drugs is lost and we ought to try a new tact.


164 posted on 04/04/2010 10:28:48 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: Eagle Eye

Again, this has almost nothing to do with what I said. I wasn’t even commenting on the majority of what was written in this piece. I’m saying that the use of the statement in question is ultimately detrimental to his overall argument because it is demonstrably false.


165 posted on 04/04/2010 10:39:16 AM PDT by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: ChrisInAR
Anyone who would give you an answer would be engaging in pure speculation, quite frankly. There are too many wildcards in play to guess what would go down with much accuracy, other than noting the Obama Admin's current hands-off towards legal state medical marijuana - the very makeup of the SCOTUS voting in Raich should give you an idea of how muddled the issue is when it comes to political parties and viewpoints.
166 posted on 04/04/2010 10:43:08 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Eva

I don’t believe, personally, that if some drugs were legalised, that anyone not currently using them, would turn to a life of drugs, prostitution and general lowness. I think all it would really do, is keep those same people from getting arrested.


167 posted on 04/04/2010 10:43:50 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: Rockingham

I disagree.


168 posted on 04/04/2010 10:44:17 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: cripplecreek

“For instance, George Soros is a big supporter and funder of the drug legalization push on both sides of the aisle and we need to be asking why.”

I don’t know. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Maybe he thinks that it would destroy America. Maybe he’s wrong about that. It didn’t destroy the country when it was legal before.

” I do know a crack addict who was locked up for smoking crack while pregnant. She says its a victimless crime.”

If abortion is legal, legally, she’s right. If we can succeed in extending rights to the unborn, she will be wrong.

If people commit crimes while under the influence, they’re still crimes, no matter the legal status of the intoxicants. People who commit crimes while drunk get no special favors, in fact, if the crime concerns use of a motor vehicle while drink, the penalties are even more severe.


169 posted on 04/04/2010 10:45:39 AM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: dirtboy

I know it’s just speculation now...after all, the November elections are still a long ways off. I’m just interested about which way the political winds are blowing.


170 posted on 04/04/2010 10:49:17 AM PDT by ChrisInAR (Alright, tighten your shorts, Pilgrim, & sing like the Duke!)
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To: rabscuttle385

The problem with libertarians being they have never found a vice that they cannot advocate.


171 posted on 04/04/2010 10:49:28 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: rabscuttle385
What a great great example this article is of the spin and ignorance that equates libertarianism to conservatism.

Thank God most commenters here understand the difference between rationalizing immediate self gratification and freedom. Whether the "drug" is alcohol or crack or meth the consequence of blatant irresponsibility, crime, and devastation to others, accrues regardless of the legality. The "drug war" is simply admission of this criminal tragedy, and is an attempt, no matter how inept, at addressing it.

Drugs are a problem, a big problem. While the rationalizing self indulgent may try to "argue" their own desire for legalization, the more mature (responsible) among us know there is a dire need for attenuation, which needs to be addressed through multiple psychologies, certainly one of which is legal penalty.

Again there is no better example of the juvenile rationalization of libertarianism than this article.

Johnny Suntrade

172 posted on 04/04/2010 10:52:19 AM PDT by jnsun (The Left: the need to manipulate others because of nothing productive to offer.)
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To: jnsun
If CA passes the marijuana legalization measure, do you think it has legitimate authority under the Tenth Amendment to enact such a program; or do you think fedgov has legitimate authority under the Commerce Clause to shut it down?
173 posted on 04/04/2010 11:11:46 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: flintsilver7
Well, this statement was certainly not well thought-out. There are dozens (if not hundreds) of offenses that are non-violent but have a direct negative impact on either society as a whole or an individual.

Start listing!

Initiating force is not the same as initiating violence, btw.

What are some of those hundreds of offenses that one can make that do not step on others but directly negatively impact society?

174 posted on 04/04/2010 11:11:51 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.)
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To: ChrisInAR; bwc2221
You don't like the term "nutjob" for Ron Paul, in whose opinion our troops are pretty much war criminals?

You don't want to offend the Paultards?

Your choice.

But I hold YOU and anyone else who won't disavow the crackpot in question responsible for his position on the military. Neither he nor you get a pass from me.

Thread with Photo postings of Ron Paul's allegations made in his newsletter back in 1993

I remember when he put this crap out. He was on several of the news shows running his diarrhea mouth on the issue. Though that era was before every move a politician makes was preserved on YouTube, his newsletter still remains, and anyone who supports him is saddled supporting his position.

175 posted on 04/04/2010 11:54:43 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Eagle Eye
That's not the statement he made nor is it the statement I made. Here, let's refresh your memory.

What he said: "I am an individual with the natural, God-given right to live my life any way I choose, so long as my conduct doesn't involve the initiation of force against others."

What I said: "There are dozens (if not hundreds) of offenses that are non-violent but have a direct negative impact on either society as a whole or an individual."

What you said was entirely different from both. Now, that said, I will point out that pretty much any financial crime negatively impacts society in that it imposes additional costs on law-abiding citizens. There are dozens of types of fraud alone. Prostitution is non-violent and does not involve the "initiation of force," but you would be hard-pressed to sell that as not negatively impacting society. Bribery, likely falling under the umbrella of financial crimes, is also relatively "victimless" yet negatively impacts society.

I have to say I really don't get what you find so difficult about this.
176 posted on 04/04/2010 11:56:20 AM PDT by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: Ken H

I don’t think that the regulation of marijuana is covered in the constitution, actually, I don’t see that drug trafficking should really be a federal offense, unless it crosses state lines or involves international borders. It should be a state issue.


177 posted on 04/04/2010 11:57:40 AM PDT by Eva
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To: rabscuttle385

Money and income...

If I had to guess, including the cops, I’d bet there are upwards of 4 million people making a good living in one form or another, off drugs being illegal.


178 posted on 04/04/2010 11:57:44 AM PDT by dragnet2
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To: stuartcr
You are obviously not old enough to understand the culture of drugs and the problems that go along with it. You haven't seen parents, who have done recreational drugs all their lives, pass their own laissez-faire attitude to their kids and ruin their kids lives because the kids can't handle it the way the parents did/do. Then there are the birth defects that are caused by parental drug abuse, that the parents deny, but exist. One of my super liberal friends, swears that the reason her son became a druggie addict is because he started too early, and that if you wait until your brain is mature, you don't become addicted. Her son called her one time when he was contemplating suicide and told her that she was the worst mother in the world because it was her influence that led him to drug use, not that she allowed it or encouraged it, but by example.

The increased mental illness and the permanent damage to your body from drugs can be enormous, too. One guy that I knew spent his whole adult life, in and out of mental institutions and died in his fifties from heart disease that the doctors attributed to his drug abuse.

179 posted on 04/04/2010 12:09:19 PM PDT by Eva
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To: tjbandrowsky

Were you talking about drugs or alcohol? This sounds exactly like the problems found with alcoholics.

Yet we aren’t banning that...


180 posted on 04/04/2010 12:22:32 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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