Pro-Lifers Celebrate Recall

californiaprolife.org ^ | Wed, 8 Oct 2003 | Brian Johnston, Executive Director of the California ProLife Council

[Mr. Silverback]

incremental adj : increasing gradually by regular degrees or additions; "lecturers enjoy...steady incremental growth in salary"

Hey, if I kill an Al-Qaida jihadi, but 99.98% of Al-Qaida is still running around, did I win an incremental victory or not?

BTW, your 99.98% estimate is low--parental notification laws reduce the numbers of abortions performed on teens, period. Sure, some of them drive to the next state, and a few (very few) get a successful pass from a judge, but some teens just don't get the abortion. Studies show that making abortion less convenient (long drive to the clinic, waiting periods, cost increase) pays off dramatically.

You call yourself Reagan Man, but I wonder...would you have called Reagan's abortion policies non-victories? Most of what he did was similarly incremental.

Saving even one child is a victory, especailly when the alternative was to have a racist pro-abort adored by Planned Parenthood sitting in the governor's chair.

[Reagan Man]

Okay. Let me put it this way. You may consider this an incremental victory, but where does Arnold go from here? What does Arnold now do to support the pro-life agenda? If Arnold went from opposing PBA to opposing the 99.98% of abortions he now condones, that would be a leap of faith and something pro-lifers would have reason to praise. Think about it. Arnold's opposition to PBA was an easy poliitcal choice to make. Most American's find the PBA procedure abhorrent. Populist politicians like Arnold, always find it easy to take mainstream positions, but have difficulty with the tough decisions.

[ohioWfan]

But in supporting parental notification and opposing partial-birth abortions, he has taken a significant break from the monolithic abortion lobby. This has made him public enemy #1 at NOW and NARAL and CARAL. There are quite a few pro-life legislators that have rallied to Arnie's side. They are in a position to advise and influence him. He has said he wants that advice. He has appointed pro-lifers to his transition team.

Where does Arnold go from here?? I'll leave that to the pro-lifers he is asking to advise him.

This is an incremental victory for the culture of LIFE in California and America. Rejoice!

This is the only way it's going to happen......there are no magic wands.....only incremental progress. Schwartzenegger's victory, and the recall of the avidly pro-death Davis qualifies.

And I'll keep praying for MORE progress, just like this.....

[amordei]

I hope you're right, but you need to recognize that some of Arnold's closest advisors dream of a GOP without the prolife noose.

As for me, even though I am pissed that my party supported a prochoicer, I accept the verdict and recognize that good can be made of it. But success won't come easy.

[Mr. Silverback]

Additionally, as the polls indicated, if he stayed out of the race McClintock, a real pro-lifer, would have won.

Let's rephrase that in two ways:

"If the guy who won 48 percent of the vote in a 135 member (or, I'll concede, a four man race among Arnold, Cruz, McClintock and Camejo) had just stayed out, our guy would have won."

"If conservatives had just spurned Arnold and supported McClintock to the hilt, he would have won."

It is disgusting that so many conservatives ran straight to Arnold's banner because he was a famous name with an "(R)" after it, and I was a McClintock guy up until a few weeks ago. But once it became apparent that McClintock could not win, the obligation for a conservative was to use their vote to help the candidate closest to our beliefs, and that wasn't Bustamante. Voting for Arnold was sort of like using a fire extinguisher. When you have a choice between driving to work or opening your hood and spraying the engine with a fire extinguisher, using the extinguisher is a really stupid idea. If your engine is on fire and your choice is between letting your car burn or using the extinguisher, suddenly the extinguisher is a very good option.

A Bustamante governorship was a fire. A McClintock vote was (at best!) "watch it burn, but feel warm and fuzzy about it." A Schwarzenegger vote was "use the extinguisher."

[ohioWfan]

But success won't come easy.

Nothing worth fighting for does.

[Delphinium]

If the Nazis had put up a somewhat less anti-jewish Furer I don't think we would have cheered the outcome any more that we did Hitler's Germany

Well said

The lesser of evils is still evil.

[Delphinium]

The "Republicans for Choice PAC" love Arniold and plan to use him to further their cause within the party.

It makes me sick to see prolife leaders help lift him to hero status in the Republican party.

[Mr. Silverback]

Your point is perceptive, and that may play a role with some folks, but I think it's mostly a personality thing. I think the main thing is that some people see the voting franchise as an embodiement of all they believe (and an endorsement of all the things the person you're voting for believes), and others like myself see the franchise as a tool. For the former, the best option is to endorse the guy who believes the right things because they're putting their stamp on him. I would believe that is exactly what you do unless he can't win in whichj case you are failing to help the next best guy and hurt the bad guy. For some reason, there are people who would really expect that because I voted for Dubya instead of Buchanan and supported Arnold over McClintock, I will be spending my time praising "compassionate conservatism," getting along with Ted Kennedy and singing "Kum-Bai-Yah" with the pro-aborts. Wrong answer. Also, they tend to see "I support Arnold" and such as "I support the GOP candidate even if he's a RINO" or even "I support RINO's" rather than "I want the RATS to lose."

Politics really is war by other means and your vote is your weapon. If you're firing off your weapon in a way that helps the enemy, it doesn't matter how good your intentions are.

[Reagan Man]

>>>BTW, your 99.98% estimate is low -- parental notification laws reduce the numbers of abortions performed on teens, period.

From your remarks, I think you meant my estimate was to high and I was talking about actual abortions. Parental notification is another easy choice for a populist like Arnold to make. Roughly 95% of all abortions take place for strictly personal choice reasons and have nothing to do with incest, rape or the life/health of the mother.

>>>You call yourself Reagan Man, but I wonder...would you have called Reagan's abortion policies non-victories? Most of what he did was similarly incremental.

I'm proud of my screen name and would nothing to tarnish Reagan's legacy. Reagan was a pro-lifer, with exceptions for rape, incest and the life/health of the mother. That means Reagan opposed roughly 95% of all abortions. Conversely, Arnold condones abortion on demand and finds nothing wrong with 99.98% of all abortions that occur annually in the US.

>>>Saving even one child is a victory ....

I am pro-life and believe saving one child is a victory. My remarks were directed at Arnold's pro-abortion position and the fact that his opposition to PBA is politically motivated and populist by design.

[Mr. Silverback]

Where does Arnold go from there? Well, consider this: Up until Tuesday, the chosen Governor of the people of California was a guy who had been instrumental in a fiscal crisis that has been called the worst in the history of any state in the entire history of our Republic. He believed that a huge car tax was a great idea. He helped engineer a massive energy crisis. He figured a great way to get some votes would be to give a driver's license to any jihadi who can walk into a DMV and claim to be from Tiajuana. And his chosen successor believes in all of this, and is an unrepentant racist who sees California as undertaxed.

Now, let's just assume that Arnold never gets a parental-notification law through the legislature. Let's assume that he never moves to the right a millimeter on pro-life. What will happen?

There won't be a racist in the governor's chair.
The car tax will go back to where it was.
Osama will not be using a Cali license.
There will not be a governor deciding that the way out is more taxation, "justified" because the victims are rich.
And (let's not forget this!) not one more baby will die than would have died under a Davis or Bustamante administration, because California already had two of the hardest hardcore pro-choicers in the country in office.

You see, being a one-issue voter on pro-life is the way to be, but if it's clear the pro-lifer can't win, we need to add our support to the person who is best on the other issues. In this case, that was Arnold.

[Aquinasfan]

A Schwarzenegger vote was "use the extinguisher."

A vote for a guy who wants to keep abortion "safe and legal" is the same as voting for a guy who wants to keep genocide "safe and legal." If you can see a difference, let me know.

It's like saying I'm going to vote for the "low-tax Nazi" over the "high-tax Nazi" because the anti-genocide, low tax candidate might not win.

[Reagan Man]

Fair enough.

But I still believe, Arnold's pro-abortion position and his opposition to PBA is politically motivated and populist by design. I don't trust him. Period.

[ohioWfan]

Politics really is war by other means and your vote is your weapon. If you're firing off your weapon in a way that helps the enemy, it doesn't matter how good your intentions are.

I couldn't agree with you more.

If good intentions from pro-lifers result in the continued or increased deaths of the unborn, they are futile.

[Mr. Silverback]

It would have made me sick to see pro-life leaders give de facto support to Bustamante by supporting a candidate who couldn't win.

The worst that could possibly happen under Arnold is that pro-lifer's won't get anywhere, which is exactly what would have happened under Bustamante. The worst that could happen under Bustamente was that some Al-Qaida type would get a Cali license. Those of us who like the Sears Tower the way it is have a tough time seeing your point.

[k2blader]

Would it not be decorous to ping the person you're gossiping about?

[ohioWfan]

Then he will have to earn your trust.........and just from gut instinct, I think he will.

Why did he ask for advice from pro-lifers, putting them on his team, if he is as hard core a pro-abort as you think he is?

I don't think it was politically expedient to have done so, since the majority of the state is pro-choice.

I am inclined to believe that his instincts are more pro-life than has been publicized.

[Reagan Man]

>>>You see, being a one-issue voter on pro-life is the way to be, but if it's clear the pro-lifer can't win, we need to add our support to the person who is best on the other issues. In this case, that was Arnold.

I'm not a one issue voter. I look at a candidates entire agenda and then make a decision. If a candidate is pro-choice, he/she is usually too moderate, too centrist or too liberal for my tastes on all the issues. I won't support them. It's no secret, I didn't support Arnold and I still don't believe he was the best man for the job. I didn't like his policy agenda and I don't support liberals, even if they have an R next to their name. Period. If Arnold had shown himself to be a bedrock fiscal conservative, I probably would have accepted his candidacy.

The best I can do at this point is wish California well and hope its new governor can get something accomplished in the long term. Right now, I believe any accomplishment will be strictly limited to the immediate hot button issues of the recall campaign and other issues of relevent but marginal concern to California.

[Delphinium]

I can see where they might have voted for him, but the way they seem to be making him a GOP hero is what bothers me.

I saw the "Republicans for Choice" on some ? news show sometime last week saying they planned to use Arnolds popularity to further their cause of getting the prolife plank taken out of the National Republican platform.

Would you compromise that much to see people with an R behind their name elected?

I believe McClintock could have won if these so-called conservatives like Shawn Hannity, etc hadn't compromised themselves so early on. The polls proved that most people thought McClintock would make the best governor, but these voters had been convinced by the media , and conservative leaders, from the beginning that he could not win.

[Reagan Man]

>>>Then he will have to earn your trust.........and just from gut instinct, I think he will.

You may have a point. I don't rule anything out in life, especially in politics. It took Reagan several years to reach his final decision about the aborrent nature of the Roe v Wade abortion decision made by the USSC. Maybe this is a future political script that will play out for Arnold. A change of direction in his morality would be welcomed by all pro-lifers, but lets not jump to any conclusions just yet.