Jets force down plane that entered restricted airspace during Bush visit

Associated Press ^ | 10-03-03

[eniapmot]

And if the transponder fails in flight, you may never know unless ATC or the tower tells you. I had one fail and the ident light just kept coming on as though it were still working.

[HairOfTheDog]

Thanks bootless! transponders can often drop out because the pilot's altitude is not high enough to get out of ground clutter... depending on where he was and how high he was....

This can, in fact, happen to any of us who do something every day for a long time until one morning the president is in town....

ATC, the F-16 pilots and the Secret Service got some got a chance to practice using judgment in a situation, the pilot and the rest of us get a reminder and no one got hurt.

[HairOfTheDog]

redact... Secret Service got some got a chance

[Bonaparte]

In all fairness, the failed transponder might not have been the pilot's fault.

Even in critical military aviation, transponders can fail, pre- or mid-flight:

IFF transponders can fail for a number of reasons; the Navy generally requires positive "mode 4" IFF checks before each flight of each plane that launches off an aircraft carrier...

[snip]

The Patriot's IFF transponder processor is at the base of a massive, truck-mounted panel that also hosts the system's radar. The IFF processor has a history of being accidentally kicked and damaged by Patriot crews.

An Army maintenance flier shows a smiling cartoon radar warning operators to "keep their feet away from IFF system elements and the main array elements" which can cause them to fail.

Here's an enlightening discussion of in-flight transponder failure.

[bootless]

And if the transponder fails in flight, you may never know unless ATC or the tower tells you. I had one fail and the ident light just kept coming on as though it were still working.

That is true - I've had that happen, too. This summer, we kept getting the interrogation but ATC couldn't see us. I think we weren't high enough, and there are lots of dead spots out in the mountains and plains.

[bootless]

And if the transponder fails in flight, you may never know unless ATC or the tower tells you. I had one fail and the ident light just kept coming on as though it were still working.

That is true - I've had that happen, too. This summer, we kept getting the interrogation but ATC couldn't see us. I think we weren't high enough, and there are lots of dead spots out in the mountains and plains.

[bootless]

Oops, sorry about the triple post. Don't know how THAT happened!

[HairOfTheDog]

Officials couldn't get the Cessna's flight plan, if it had one, because its transponder failed.

Actually, the biggest problem with that statement is not that they claim the transponder failed, but the assumption that (1) there even was, or should have been, a flight plan (There is not always or even often a reason to file a flight plan for a VFR pleasure flight) and the even bigger assumption that he would have been Squawking anything other than the standard 1200 VFR code. Contrary to common assumption, most VFR pleasure flights are not given a unique code, but a common code that ID's them as uncontrolled VFR traffic.

[Bonaparte]

I think the other poster left out the word "not" as in, this is NOT necessarily the pilot's fault.

Yes, that's exactly what I was pointing out to him, ie. the need to review so that just such typos are caught before posting. He understood that, why can't you?

Your attitude about general aviation, btw, is pretty much reflective of what the Clintonistas think about it. GA is one of the last bastions of the exercise of personal responsibility extant in our country.

Just one look at the number of fines, citations, suspensions and revocations issued shows that not all pilots act responsibly. Common sense dictates that if there were no irresponsible and unsafe pilots, there would be no need for disciplinary oversight bodies. And due to recent events, I'm probably not the only American who is a bit touchy on the subject of avionic "extracurriculars."

Are you sure the "Clintonista" comparison is necessary?

Don't run it down without sufficient facts.

This has already been stated/corrected. You would have realized this if you had read my overhead post on this short thread.

[bootless]

Perzackly! I figured I'd beaten that one to death in the past.

[Bonaparte]

"Thanks for your retraction and for going to the AOPA site. I appreciate it."

Thankyou for the acknowledgment, bootless. I appreciate that. I like to think that I am not above admitting error, correcting it and at least trying not to repeat.

[bootless]

I'm sorry about that - I wrote that before you returned after seeing the AOPA site (see my message below that). It bothers me to see people run GA down as a menace to society, which it isn't. People who fly stupidly are slapped down pretty quickly, and I'm certainly not saying that all pilots are perfect.

I'm low on sleep, and probably a little cranky.

[bootless]

:-) Looks like we're trading delayed apologies. Thank you, too.

[Bonaparte]

I understand perfectly, b. I've fallen victim to my own itchy trigger finger often enough to have had ample opportunities to practice contrition. Looks like we've both gotten pretty good at it. :-)

[bootless]

:-) I'm usually pretty level-headed when I post ... and try to be really sure before I post in anger. I just watched my Giants play an uncharacteristically poor defensive NLDS, and am generally in a bad mood right now, since they have since lost. JT Snow got thrown out at the plate to end the game/series/season. As Mike Krukow says, "Die hard, boys. Die hard."

And my son's is pretty unhappy right now, with the sudden and abrupt end to the season. He's a big fan. (But his role models are his family!)

[Bonaparte]

How well I understand your disappointment. I was a huge Giants fan for many years. When I was just starting to play ball, Willie Mays (who lived a few blocks away from us) helped me select my first glove, showed me how to break it in and was rarely too busy to coach me and my friends. I tried to never miss his home games.

[bootless]

Yeah... going wire to wire in first all year, and seeing the always-good defense fail them was a shock. Ugh.

When I was just starting to play ball, Willie Mays (who lived a few blocks away from us) helped me select my first glove, showed me how to break it in and was rarely too busy to coach me and my friends.

WOW! I really, really like Willie. Lucky you!

[Bonaparte]

He was just the best, bootless. What a nice man. When he moved to a new home down the penninsula, we all hated to see him go.