Megachurches, Megabusinesses

Forbes.com ^ | September 17, 2003 | Luisa Kroll

[Just another Joe]

"Christianity" is not a "new religion" that Jesus started - as decribed in the Gospels, it is DECIDEDLY Hebrew in nature and practice.

Bump
We are but a branch grafted onto the tree.

[RnMomof7]

You may want to visit a sound liturgical church sometime and find out.

Having been raised in a liturgical church there are some very special practices. I went to a Serbian Orthodox vespers and I love the chanting and the incense

I do not think I would choose to go back to the liturgical worship , but I do agree on reciting the Our father or the apostles creed has a sense of history and unity .

Did you know that it was Luther that brought in congregational singing ? I have always loved it , and I do find it in my church as well..We also hold hands and sing the doxology .

[RnMomof7]

I do not believe Piper is on radio..He is on the internet though

[RnMomof7]

I have seem Hinn live (many years ago.) I would not attend a church that thought he was in anyway sound!

[RnMomof7]

Exactly ! I have been in mega churches and tiny ones (I am now in a church of 300 that is Just perfect;).

All the mega churches from what I see are man centered.

My future daughter in law went to the anniversary of the Harvest Bible chapel in Chicago with a friend and loved it and the services they provide.

Mega churches are about men first and God second or third IMO

[RnMomof7]

Calvary Chapel would not fall into that category.

I do not think it is at all inconsistent of Mega churches. He refuses to take a doctrinal stand and therefore has doctrinally ignorant members. A gospel preached with no foundation will be heard different ways by each listener

There are many Happy clappy folks that go there just like any of the churches made to attract the world

[RnMomof7]

Where do you go to church?

[RnMomof7]

Ping..good post

[FourPeas]

Let me help you with some words from a praise book song:

You Are My King

I'm forgiven because You were forsaken
I'm accepted, You were condemned
I'm alive and well; Your Spirit is within me
Because You died and rose again
CHORUS:

Amazing love, how can it be
That you, my King, would die for me?
Amazing love, I know it's true
It's my joy to honor You
In all I do, I honor You
You are my King

Refiner's Fire

Purify my heart
Let me be as gold and precious silver
Purify my heart
Let me be as gold, pure gold

Chorus:
Refiner's fire
My heart's one desire
Is to be holy
Set apart for You Lord
I choose to be holy
Set apart for You my master
Ready to do your will.

Purify my heart
Cleanse me from within and make me holy
Purify my heart
Cleanse me from my sin deep within

Heart of Worship

When the music fades
All is stripped away
And I simply come
Longing just to bring
Something that's of worth
That will bless Your heart

I bring you more than a song
For a song in itself
Is not what you have required
You search much deeper within
Through the way things appear
You're looking into my heart

I'm coming back to the heart of worship
And it's all about you
It's all about you, Jesus
I'm sorry Lord for the thing I've made it
When it's all about you
It's all about you, Jesus

King of endless worth
No one could express
How much you deserve
Though I'm weak and poor
All I have is yours
Every single breath

[Paulus Invictus]

Amen! These strange churches seem to be preaching that it is all about MONEY! And someone said (look it up!), "the love of money is the root of all evil."

[FourPeas]

You may wonder and suspect about many things, but unless you know them to be true, they're not valid criticisms.

We attend a church growing on the megachurch model. Through small groups, volunteering in the children's ministry, helping with technology and assisting with the worship services, we know quite a few people. After about a year and a half of attendance, I am involved in the lives of many more people than I was at a far smaller church that we attended for 3+ years.

And, you know, even if the people are attending the church service for social rather than spiritual reasons (or because someone dragged them there), that doesn't mean that God's spirit won't use their presence to convict them. Having a person in worship serviced, and hearing the Word of God, just because they like to tap their toes to the music is vastly better than not having them his His Word.

[CARepubGal]

Aa good website for you to check is: http:\\www.whitehorseinn.org. There are links to some excellent Reformed denominations. Very useful information contained there. And no Rick Warren style nonsense. I can't stand Warren and thankfully attend a nice Orthodox Presbyterian church where none of this watered down pseudo doctrine exists. ;-)

[CARepubGal]

No need. I was a Mormon and Warren is very very very similar: Feelings over scripture. Ick.

[Not A Snowbird]

I see. Well, I wouldn't put Rick Warren and Saddleback in quite the same category as, say, the Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove. That church is horribly commercial and Rick would never allow his church to become anything like that, or anything like the televised services you see on Sunday mornings.

To each his own, of course. Everybody has a different comfort level and meets God in a different place. That said, I would encourage anybody visiting Southern California to go one time to Saddleback, just to talk to people, walk the grounds, and see what they are about. You might be surprised, but if it's not for you then that's fine.

I attended Saddleback for four years and was active in the orchestra ministry before I moved to Washington. This church is not about money or prestige (Rick hates talking about money), it's about winning souls to Christ. And they do it very well.

[CARepubGal]

Crystal Cathedral: Ugh! Rick is not in the same category as that horror (I put Schuller and the Crouches in the Benny Hinn group of slime). My issue with Saddleback is this: Rick uses a business model rather than simply teaching the Word of God. i can go back for an MBA if I want to hear about business models and success being defined in worldly terms. And frankly, the one size fits all mentality paired with the coveyesque teachings (Covey is a devout Mormon) is a cause for concern.

Megachurches can be excellent John MacArthur has a church in Sun Valley, CA that is scripturally sound. Saddleback is a consumer focused business.

[anncoulteriscool]

****You may wonder and suspect about many things, but unless you know them to be true, they're not valid criticisms. ****

I know them to be true.

[WillRain]

Well, that bit of information is enough for me to consign Lakewood to the heresy-friendly camp. Hinn is so over the top heretical that there ought to be another word for it. and the Bible clearly gives some of it's strongest rebukes in the New Testament to those who are false teachers and those who are party to their deeds.

Let no one uderstand that any of my comments on this thread would defend ANY ministry which has truck with Benny Hinn.

[WillRain]

You sir, paint iwht entirely too broad a brush.

Inasmuch as you are speaking of the health & wealth propserity preachers that populate TBN and there followers, you are dead on.

but not every megachurch is part of that hereasy and the implication that they are displays tremenbous ignorence on your part. By reputation, the Clavery Chapels are extreemly sound, I know for certain - as well as any non-member can - that you would find hundreds if not thousands at Saddleback who could answer your challange.

Several known ministers pastor congregations of thousands and I can assure you that the core membership of the churches pastored by John McArthur, Adrian Rogers, Charles Stanley, and many many others can meet your challange.

Furthermore, I'll wager that a rather large precentage of those members of the good old fashioned literguical creed-reading churches CAN'T answer your challange.

And that is not a slight on either form of church. EVERY church has serious, commited, well lerned members, and lazy pew-fillers who can't name the four gospels.

Bash the heritics all you want, I'll be right by your side. But broadening your claims to every large church (and I say this as a member of a church with under 500 members) is just flat out wrong.

[WillRain]

Also, when we use music patterned after the world, we send the message that God doesn't care how we worship him, that the most important thing is getting large numbers of people. The pagans see this. Why should they fear such a God, Who lets anything go, and restrain their lives accordingly?

You do realize that the majority of your beloved old hymns are set to the tune of barroom drinking songs of their day, don't you?

[luckymom]

I don't attend one on the list, but the one I do attend uses examples from Willow Creek and Saddleback. We have weekly attendance of over 3,000 and hundreds participate in mid-week bible study house groups. My family left the Lutheran church (ELCA) because it LACKED the biblical base our new church has, and was too concerned with relativism and eschewing God's unchanging word for modernism. Our new pastor has the guts to say no to abortion, homosexuality, and sex outside of marriage which our ELCA church did NOT do. It is so refreshing!