Gen. Shelton shocks Celebrity Forum, says he won't support Clark for president

Los Altos online ^ | 09/23/03

[ThirstyMan]

This event illustrates to me the problems with the 60's generation. On the one hand you have men who did their duty, served their country, and many died. On the other hand you have left wing dope smoking protesters who are viewed by the media as being morally equivalent because they protested the war???? To me they are, were nothing but low life cowardly scum. That one of their kind, Bill Clinton could even get elected president tells me that my values are out of sync with the rest of the country.

OC,
Being out of sync with those base liberal elements of our country isn't that troubling to me. I shudder to think though that they might ever gain a majority rule over us, knowing well, in the back of my mind, that Gore actually won the popular vote!?! OUCH!!!

THAT makes me pray!

Geo Bush's win was one strategic victory for the forces of good. I just live my life thankfully, according to God's guidance, being the light and salt as much as I can be and hoping to God that the rest of the picture falls into place.

What else can we do?

[VOA]

You HAVE read the book by Anton Myrer

Sadly, no yet...some day when time permits.

It's a bummer that the TV mini-series isn't available.
Besides the good story line, the show became imprinted on my mind because during
the height of battle, some two-star generals were making the ultimate sacrifice.

Before that, my immature mind had only been exposed to grunts losing their lives
in war-movies.

[archy]

Are you familiar with the story of Nathan Bedford Forrest III, the first general officer to be killed in the air war over Germany in 1943? Yes, general officers sometimes die with the rest of us....

Some additional material, fictional but very clearly derived from actual people and events, that I highly reccomend as useful to you in your contemplation of such matters: the series of novels by author W.E.B. Griffin, entitled The Lieutenants, The Captains, The Majors and so forth, progressing all the way up to general's rank with a few included detours such as the Aviators and The Berets.

In them you'll find reappearances of familiar characters who'll feel like old friends after the first couple, and then might consider the same author's efforts detailing the Marine Corps from WWII to the present. I gave a set of the books in paperback to the bethrothed of an army officer cadet and he informed me that they made her cry. I am not a nice person.

[davidosborne]

What did Ya'all think about Gen. Clark's response to the question when asked about these charges durring the recent Presidential debate?

[Miss Marple]

What I thought is that there is something there that Clark doesn't want discussed. His immediate tagging that question as "McCarthyism" was way too much for a simple question.

If Clark had said something like "General Shelton and I had basic policy and procedural differences," I wouldn't have been very surprised, and would have probably forgotten it.

But that isn't what Clark said. He immediately tried to portray the questioner as out of bounds. Now I am REALLY suspicious.

[davidosborne]

CAMERON: General Clark, I suspect you're going to want to comment a little bit on the governor's remarks about the ad and your early support, as he's asserted it.

But your military service in general is considered a large part of the predicate for your candidacy. I wonder if you could take a moment and explain to us why, at the end of your time as the supreme allied commander of NATO, you were not re-upped and why such folks as Retired General Hugh Shelton have suggested you were effectively fired for what he called character and integrity issues.

CLARK: Well, thanks for the opportunity to talk about this.

(LAUGHTER)

We used to call charges like that "McCarthyism" when they came out in the 1950s.

(APPLAUSE)

Now, the simple truth is that Hugh Shelton is an old friend of mine; I've known him for 20 years. But we had a significant disagreement about policy.

I believe the purpose of the United States in Europe was to follow through on our commitments to bring peace to Bosnia and prevent another round of ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, in Kosovo.

I believe there were 1.5 million Albanians there who were in danger of being thrown out of their homes and having their lives and property at risk.

Some people in the Pentagon disagreed with me. I went through the Pentagon and recommended we use diplomacy backed by the threat of force. I had the permission of the Pentagon to do that. I worked, I warned, I struggled to prevent a war. And when it finally came down to it, I had to fight it, lead it, and we won it.

But let me tell you two things. Number one, I stand up and fight for what I believe in. And nobody is going to see the United States on my watch humiliated in a military mission because we don't have the gumption to follow through on our requirements.

And number two, when you put American troops in harm's way, you better not do it without a plan and a strategy and the determination that you're going to prevail.

That's what I stood for. We were successful. I received two distinguished service medals, the Presidential Medal of Freedom for that kind of leadership.

Why Hugh Shelton would say that now, I have no idea.

IFILL: General...

CLARK: But if anybody knows, would you please let me know. Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

[davidosborne]

It was obvious he did not want to talk about this and I agree that he tried to spin the question as "out of bounds"... He must have known, or should have known, that the question would come up, I guess he was just hoping it didn't... I would like to see the media press him for a more detailed response...

[davidosborne]

Transcript of debate on fox...

[E.G.C.]

BTTT!!!!!!

[davidosborne]

CLARK FAULTS W. FOR 9/11

Clark: 9/11 Was Bush's Fault

Clark Responds to Kosovo Questions

[davidosborne]

What do you think about Clark's response?

[E.G.C.]

Good morning, David and Happy Halloween.

Clark clearly has some major integrity issues. He seems to think that the vast majority of us who are christians and conservatives are the real threat to thsi country and not Saddam. Could he use the military against us? I'm not sure but I'm not so anxious to find out.

Obviously, there's something he's hiding since he seem to consider the questions about Shelton's observations about him out of bounds. I guess we'll see what all comes out.

[davidosborne]

Good Morning... Thanks for your input.. I am amazed at the media's aparent lack of interst on this issue... Some serious character issues have been raised about a Former General Officer / Presidential Candidate and they seem to be not intersted....

I am leaving for Fort Jackson soon, this weekend I will complete Phase II of U.S. Army Drill Sergeant school... I look foward to graduating on 24 January 2004 at Fort Jackson.. ALL FREEPERS WELCOME !!!... Will keep you posted...

[archy]

The Pristina Airport incident must have told him something. Shelton has some dirt on Clark.

I believe you're correct about some dirt, particularly of the sort that demands loyalty and sacrifice from subordinates, but then fails to return it back down the Chain of Command. As a Ranger and snakeeater, Shelton has made his career in a community where that sort of two-way traffic is a must.

But I don't believe that the Pristina Airport incident is the reason, or at least not the entire reason.

>

[archy]

Or the guy who orders a British General to parachute onto an airfield controlled by Russians - and he wonders why his order is disobeyed.

There was a US Officer at the Pristina airfield when the Russians moved in. Short of other resources, he opened his fatigue shirt to show the Russians he was wearing one of the blue-and-white striped telnyashka T-shirts that are the symbol of the elite Russian VDV paratroops as much as the green beret is for American Special Forces troops. Apparantly the US airborne officer had previously made some *partnership* jumps with the Russians and hoped that he might convince them that escalation of the situation wasn't a particularly wise idea. But the Russians had their orders, and his effort, unorthodox and desperate as it was, failed to keep the Russian desantniks from taking the most suitable positions and waiting to see if they'd be reinforced or attacked.

[archy]

Or the guy who orders a British General to parachute onto an airfield controlled by Russians - and he wonders why his order is disobeyed.

There was a US Officer at the Pristina airfield when the Russians moved in. Short of other resources, he opened his fatigue shirt to show the Russians he was wearing one of the blue-and-white striped telnyashka T-shirts that are the symbol of the elite Russian VDV paratroops as much as the green beret is for American Special Forces troops. Apparantly the US airborne officer had previously made some *partnership* jumps with the Russians and hoped that he might convince them that escalation of the situation wasn't a particularly wise idea. But the Russians had their orders, and his effort, unorthodox and desperate as it was, failed to keep the Russian desantniks from taking the most suitable positions and waiting to see if they'd be reinforced or attacked.

[stand watie]

TRUE!

[stand watie]

that he's just as big a turkey as wee willie.

free dixie,sw

[BlueNgold]

Gen Clark is a narcissist. This is my not-so-clinical evaluation. When he thought he wasn't wanted by the (R) party he jumped ship and looked for a way onto the national scene. He does not deal well with criticism, and assumes he is always right (for those of you who read my posts - yes, something like myself in that regard). He strives for glory and acceptance, and his inate insecurity drives him to believe everything good he hears about himself, and to continually seek greater accomplishments - this is not a bad trait by iteslef, but the narcissist will seek accomplishments for accomplishments sake, the notch on the belt so to speak. He is not seeking the greater good or even personal contentment. This is probably why he and X42 get along so well....

[Sonny M]

Gen Clark is a narcissist. This is my not-so-clinical evaluation. When he thought he wasn't wanted by the (R) party he jumped ship and looked for a way onto the national scene. He does not deal well with criticism, and assumes he is always right (for those of you who read my posts - yes, something like myself in that regard). He strives for glory and acceptance, and his inate insecurity drives him to believe everything good he hears about himself, and to continually seek greater accomplishments - this is not a bad trait by iteslef, but the narcissist will seek accomplishments for accomplishments sake, the notch on the belt so to speak. He is not seeking the greater good or even personal contentment. This is probably why he and X42 get along so well....

You didn't just hit the nail on the head, you hit it with a jackhammer. The thing about Clark that I have noticed and find scared, is this weird complex, where he wants to be Patton/Ike/McArthur. The war hero everyone loves, respects, and admires and desires for leadership. In speeches (paid, and in interviews), his anger that he doesn't get the same attention or treatment for the Kosovo war that Shwartzkoph got, infuriates him. He is no peacenik, this guy wants world war 3, and his moment to shine and be the "great leader of our generation". He never hesitates to refer to Kosovo as a war (and his face turns red when he also says "not to many people seem to know that was a war").

This obsession and drive to make his name in the books of history, as a great general and war hero, who has to constantly hark on both vietnam, and kosovo (though he spent his time in Belgum) is a sign that this man is a power hungry driven madman. The left is so full of hate for Bush, they are blind to see the wolf in sheeps clothing. Clark has no real ideology, no real political beliefs, he is still learning lefty dogma, but he knows he wants power and his name in lights.

It should be noted, that his economic views that he is espousing now, totally contradict his previous teachings by 180 degrees. Wesley Clark, believe it or not, used to teach economics at west point, and often preached supply side economics and adam smith style beliefs according to his students. He was, pretty anti-government in his economic views then (though, they also claimed, he had a good understanding of economics then, why he talks like a fool now, I have not a clue).