Bush Haters vs. History

National Review ^ | 09/18/03 | J. D. Hayworth

[JohnGalt]

Maybe if J. D. Hayworth and his colleagues did not cower from their Constitutional duty to declare war, a formal document, and the debate the precedes the document, would exist for the populace to determine what was said versus what happened.

[shetlan]

Casual Bush haters (ie: nasty, pseudo-intellectual, do-good-on-someone-else's dime, multicultural, whiney, socialist/liberals) might find fake charges against the Bush administration plausible.

The grown-ups know better.

[PMCarey]

What was lacking in the Senate resolution in this regard?

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

Maybe if J. D. Hayworth and his colleagues did not cower from their Constitutional duty to declare war, a formal document, and the debate the precedes the document, would exist for the populace to determine what was said versus what happened.

I can respect a claim that we should have passed a bill of Marque and Reprisal in response to the boundaryless attack of 911.

But if you compare Iraq to Kosovo or 'most any other post-WWII American military operation you would find that the congressional authorization is quite substantial.

The actual issue is personal between journalists and Bush; journalists believe in the power of PR and therefore consider that a president who overcame journalistic pro-Gore PR to win by a paltry 500 votes to be illegitimate. So it has to be the Supreme Court's fault that Bush rather than Gore is POTUS.

[JohnGalt]

I agree on the real politic point, however, my objection is with JD Hayworth writing in this tone.

The whole point of declaring war is to have a formal debate on the record that can be judged after the fact rather than through 'spin control.'

[JohnGalt]

A Declaration of War.


Resolutions for Violence is so 1984.

[Cicero]

There hasn't been a formal declaration of war since 1940.

Truman called the Korean war a "police action."

The congressional resolution on Iraq was more definite than most, and certainly more definite than any congresional support clinton sought for his misadventures.

[zbigreddogz]

Go back to moveon.org

[JohnGalt]

Whatever you say 6/23/2003.

[JohnGalt]

Was that to me?

My point was not of the legality or precedent issue, but JD and company could have spared their President soul responsibility for this war if they had laid out their case formally on the floor of the House.

Abdicating responsibility, puts the focus solely on the Executive Branch. molested therein by any whomsoever upon any manner of pretence.

[PMCarey]

My point is that there was debate on the record for the Senate resolution and a formal document was presented that would authorize the equivalent of war. So my question remains: what exactly in terms putting statements on the record was lacking in the Senate resolution?

[PMCarey]

Abdicating responsibility, puts the focus solely on the Executive Branch. molested therein by any whomsoever upon any manner of pretence.

I think the Senate resolution does put some responsibility on the Senate, but I see and appreciate the point you raised in the first part of your sentence.

I have NO idea what the second part of your sentence means.

[PMCarey]

Abdicating responsibility, puts the focus solely on the Executive Branch. molested therein by any whomsoever upon any manner of pretence.

I think the Senate resolution does put some responsibility on the Senate, but I see and appreciate the point you raised in the first part of your sentence.

I have NO idea what the second part of your sentence means.

[JohnGalt]

Sorry 'bout that, I use an Outlook to spellcheck and looks like I copted a piece from another post on the Treaty of Westphalia.

I was trying to suggest that the purpose of having congress declare war is that they become responsible; it provides a check on political war since the people can be voted out. The murkyness over the reasons for this war are intentional, but are not part of good self-government.

[cksharks]

Go back to moveon.org.

[JohnGalt]

Asking Congress to follow the Consitution is a 'leftwing' position?

[PMCarey]

It's a very good point. I agree with you.