University Begins Displaying American Flag in Classrooms

CNS News ^ | September 12, 2003 | ucfdeltagirl

[goodseedhomeschool (returned)]

My sentiments exactly. :)

[goodseedhomeschool (returned)]

Once again, Why am I not surprised?

[goodseedhomeschool (returned)]

If they are in college, they should know where the countries are by now.

[jwalsh07]

What I meant was, if you don't know about learning at my level (I teach freshmen to upper division PhD students) let those of us who understand this kind of education make our own decisions.

Learning at your level? What level would that be?

We have allowed the public schools to make their own decisions for much too long. The product you are turning out, in a word, sucks.

I say this from experience having sent two of my children to public schools and universties.

My grandchildren will be attending parochial schools courtesy of Grandpa, that's me, because the public schools have been destroyed by the NEA and their friends on the left. You simply confirm my informed opinion.

[bmauer]

Read some Lester Brown.

I don't want to go into this issue any more here.

[bmauer]

Hey, I agree that college students should know where countries are. But . . . many don't.

[PurVirgo]

Um, It's UCF. USF is in Tampa. UCF is in Orlando

err... forgive me... It was 6AM, and I hadn't even finished my first cuppa joe

[bmauer]

learning at my level -- University level.

Public schools -- no comment. That's not University level so it's not my domain.

The "products" I turn out don't suck. First of all, they are not products. They are people. Second I don't turn them out. I keep in contact with my students over the years and make sure they are doing well. Third, I helped the career of the first Rhodes scholar ever from UCF. That's like winning the World Series in my business.

I am not a member of the NEA, but I really don't think it would change my teaching much if I were. The university thinks I do a great job in general. So do students. So do my peers. So do parents and relatives. So does just about anybody who has worked with me in the classroom. I trust their evaluations more than I trust yours (what do you know about my teaching anyway?)

By all means send your children elsewhere. I have enough students to keep me busy for a while.

[ARepublicanForAllReasons]

You protest too much, and miss the point. You have 'flagophobia', a common leftist ailment.
Let me state it more clearly: the flag of our country is non-partisan - it symbolizes all of us, left, right and center. As such, the flag has just as much right to be in your classroom as you have to be in this country.

[mjaneangels@aolcom]

"The flags disrupt campus."

Guess what. The flags are the national symbol of the USA and the UCF is on USA soil. If anyone is disrupted by the flying of a USA flag on USA soil, they are disrupted by America and all we value. They need to leave. We don't need them, and they obviously don't want to be here.

[jwalsh07]

I trust their evaluations more than I trust yours (what do you know about my teaching anyway?)

I only know what I've read here Mauer and I remain singularly unimpressed.

I would be more impressed if you took a position on how to limit population growth and didn't ask inane questions about the worlds water supply, Lester Brown and his band of renown not withstanding.

Remember Mauer, you have nothing to fear but the flag itself. It doesn't bite, emit CO2 or reproduce.

[mjaneangels@aolcom]

"that the classroom is a space that should be free of flags so that we can be free to be critical."

That flag is the symbol of what makes a classroom truely free to be critical. You should not worry if it is there. You should be terrified if it isn't.

[TheBigB]

"Chilling effect." Oops, I used it.

Pphhbbttt. :)P

First, I don't condone most of the comments made by leftists you cite here. I have leftist friends who fly off the handly sometimes, (just like most people do), and I try to get them to consider whatthey say more carefully. I oppose leftist extremism just as I oppose rightist extremism. Stalin? Hitler? Who's worse? I don't want to find out through personal experience, that's for sure.

I think we're making progress. You admit that leftist extremism exists. ;-) But of course, "extremism" is a very objective term. Stalin and Hitler were both evil (another relative term, but I can't think of a better word. Darn my state university edumacated brain) and I think that you would agree that President Bush, as much as you may disagree with him, is not in any way comparable to either. Do you still believe that a "radical right-wing coup [that] took over the government?" You might also want to read Bill Sammon's AT ANY COST.

I also did not call America a racist, fascist state.

I did not mean to imply that you had. I should have been clearer; I was speaking in general. But I also think you'll agree that you won't see many such signs at a "right-wing" gathering.

By the way, there is slavery in the U.S. Most of it is in the sex trade, but some of it is also in agriculture.

Ah yes, again true. Wicked and awful in any form. I mean that it is not really practiced openly, as it is in places such as the Sudan.

I accept your point that I will tell students to feel free to express any opinion they wish. Since President Hitt said the flags are meant to symbolize our free speech, I hope to keep him to his word on that.

I bet he does. I hope so.

Back to "chiling effect." If there are flags in the classroom and some students get punished or beaten up because they say something negative about the flag, that would have a chilling effect.

True. For all of our bluster here, I do not believe you will ever see any story of any FReeper, or of many conservatives, taking physical action against someone for their opinions. There are exceptions of course, and those come from both the left and right. Threats against self or property are another matter, of course. A student getting beaten up for ANY opinion is wrong and should be grounds for punishment and/or expulsion. This should be true for the left and the right. I sincerely doubt that any student wil be beaten up for expressing opposition to the flags. I mean, this has been going on for a couple of months now...has it happened at all? Of course, common sense should also apply. You may have the constitutional right to walk through south central LA or harlem at midnight wearing a klan uniform. But you'd be damn stupid to try and, I would say, deserving of what happens to you. That chilling effect thing goes both ways...if it is known that you oppose the flags, would a student that supports them feel intimidated in your classroom?

IF Shannon Burke and ROCK police people's views about the flag too much, that would have a chilling effect. I'm not saying itdefinitely will happen, but I am concerned it might,

A legitimate point. But again, are you really expecting ROCK members to be listening outside every classroom door of every class to see what the professor might say? Do they even have that many members? :) Concerns about what "might" happen could paralyze one completely over any issue. Be your level-headed self and say that you might not agree with the flags, but you acknowledge that many do, and let's discuss.

Justice. I think OJ is guilty and nobody said boo to me about being a racist. But is there equal justice for blacks and whites throughout the country? Most studies of the issue I've seen say no.

I'll acknowledge that. But I don't see any connection to that nasty "radical right-wing coup" that you said is "destroying justice." Have you met any conservatives who said that all black defendants are guilty and all white ones are innocent? I sure haven't. And it may be more of a class thing than racial per se. See: Grubman, Lizzie. It was that radical left-wing lawyer William Kunstler that said specifically that all black defendants are innocent in a white racist society, i.e. the US.

Here are some stats on the anti-war views in the media -- http://www.fair.org/reports/iraq-sources.html

Thanks, I'll look at 'em.

See stopshannon.com for the Burke quote. My comment about his homophobia was a general one. I heard him talk about homosexuals today on the radio. He speaks derisively of them, saying they speak with lisps and then laughing about it. It's crude elementary school style homophobia.

Oh come on. Juvenile it may be. But it is still protected speech. I saw Eddie Murphy say on TV that white people can't dance and Redd Foxx say "there ain't nothin uglier than an old white woman." I laughed my ass off. As Dennis Miller said, he refuses to treat homosexuals like faberge eggs who will break at the slightest touch. If they wish to be treated like anyone else, then they too will be poked fun at, as are whites, blacks, men, women, heterosexuals, metrosexuals, bisexuals, anythingelsesexuals. Come, join our reindeer games. :)

I am concerned for my future at UCF. Because of the flag issue. I am worried that a misled public will think that because I oppose flags in classrooms that I am a dangerous American-hating traitor ,etc. I could see the administration bowng to that kind of pressure. At the very least, I feel insecure about it.

Okay, I understand your feelings, but I really don't think you should worry. Have you spoken to the ROCK members about your thoughts? You said you love America and I see no reason from your postings to disagree. If you don't do anything worse than what I mentioned earlier...say you disagree, but you acknowledge that others do agree with it, so let's discuss it...I mean, no one should be upset by that. There's a world of difference between that and that Professor at TX (Jensen, I think), who said anyone who blows up the Pentagon gets his vote. That, I would say, is over the line. Be a good-humored person and be respectful and encourage all your students to be the same way...my favorite professor as an undergrad was a staunch liberal who disagreed with me on almost everything. When I applied to be an intern in Trent Lott's office (ah, when I was young and naive...), he wrote a wonderful tongue-in-cheek letter to the senator saying his efforts to convert me to the high ideals of the Democratic party had failed completely. :)

I could entertain you too with lots of stories about pro-war people going nuts -- like the guy who drove his pickup truck into a crowd of protesters.

Lock him up. If anyone was killed, fry him. I say that in all sincerity.

Of course Ann Coulter can speak freely and ROCK can bring her to UCF. But she is not a "lone voice." Add Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, and many many others. Coulter is way off base and her audience is not particularly critical of her. I think it's healthy to hear anti-Coulter voices too. That doesn't mean that I'm not scared stiff by her.

That's the free market, Prof. :) Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, and others are popular because people like listening to them. I've ever heard any of them advocating any kind of violent acts against anyone else. As opposed to Mssr. Baldwin. Calling Ann "off base" is your opinion, no more valid than mine. :) And no, she does not go without criticism. Many conservative pundits did not look kindly on TREASON, Horowitz for one. She was released from NATIONAL REVIEW after her "invasion" column. There are many opposing voices...Michael Moore (try and avoid him nowadays), Al Franken (his new book is on the best-seller list), Jim Hightower, Paul Krugman, etc. I am not scared of any of them. Amused, yes. Frequently driven to fits of nausea, yes. But scared, no. :)

Of course there are conservative faculty members. I know some of them.

You should tell them to set up a similar group.

I don't know MECHa.

See: http://www.panam.edu/orgs/MEChA/nat.html I find it disturbing that this group resides on college campuses with barely any criticism.

Here's an idea for you (if you're brave enough)...repeat all those quotes I've given to you (after you verify them) and ask if the quoted people are racists or hatemongers or what. See what your students say. I just bet that you'd get some lively discussion. ;)

[mrustow]

But is there equal justice for blacks and whites throughout the country? Most studies of the issue I've seen say no.

No, because blacks don't get justice, or because whites don't get justice? If the answer is the former, you need to broaden your reading.

[mjaneangels@aolcom]

Here is the problem:

"It sounds to me like you want America to be more like North Korea where love of flag and leader are mandatory for everyone everywhere."

We are not North Korea. Love of the flag is not mandatory, nor is love of the leader. You have just shown yourself to be morally equating North Korea which makes demands, and the USA where love of the flag is genuine. You have used this repeatedly as your arguement against having the flag of the USA permenantly flying on USA soil. The truth is that the flag would only mean something to those who had feelings toward it. Every arguement you have used indicates that you do not love the flag or America, but that you see the USA as the equivilant of North Korea or the like. There is a huge difference. Maybe if you simply learned that, you would understand reality.

[stainlessbanner]

The American Flag was securely placed in my college classroom with consent of all students. All are proud to have a symbol of unity and freedom in our classroom.

Mission Accomplished.

[Sam's Army]

How dare you turn that learning enviornment into North Korea. (sarcasm)

[justshutupandtakeit]

I hope your research in areas which you teach is better than that illustrated here. I have looked into the book you mention "Best blah, blah" and it is crap throughout. There were too many errors and falsehoods in the sections I read for me to waste my time reading it all. Governors DO NOT purge voters rolls, that job is the job of local officials. Voters can cast disputed ballots which are held on the side until the dispute over eligibility is resolved. This is standard practice throughout the country and would be in Florida as well even those counties controlled by corrupt and incompetent DemocRATS. IT IS A LIE THAT LEGITIMATE VOTERS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE, other than the Haitians which the RATS prevented. It is true that Gore and other RAT operatives attempted to prevent US MILITARY MEMBERS FROM VOTING ABSENTEE.

Your belief that the major media in this country is neutral or unbiased is astounding, can you really be THAT dense? I can take EVERY report on any of them and dissect it showing dozens of falsehoods, distortions and misinformation. There are almost no "centrist" media outlets, virtually every one is Leftist and reflexively anti-American.

Chicago DemocRATS M.O.s are the same as that party has used throughout its history. They were used by Aaron Burr in the eighteenth century and by his Tammany Hall allies throughout the nineteen hundreds. They were used by the Party Bosses in Philadelphia, Newark, Jersey City, Houston, Memphis. Why don't you look into a little history on this matter.

Voting machines' potential for abuse is routinely ignored as long as RATS win only when their abuse did NOT produce a RAT victory are they questioned. In Florida's case, that lie was ginned up even before the polls closed when defeat was staring the party in the face.

So now you are going to tell me that Stevens and Souter are rightists? BTW SEVEN Supremes were appointed by Republicans but only three are conservatives. Stevens and Souter vote routinely with Ginsburg and Breyer and O'Connor and Kennedy are unpredictable so by any fair description would be Moderates. You really should know what you are talking about to comment on this forum.

As regards your earlier false comment about DeLay, the letter you posted does not substantiate it nor do the allegations it raises have any merit. It undoubtably received great play in that "rightist" media you fantasize about but thinking people AND CONGRESS dismissed it as just another Leftwing hack attack. You probably believe the RATS running away from their jobs in the Texas legislature was inspired by righteous and just opposition to the eeeevilll, DeLay's machinations, too. LOL.

[HamiltonJay]

Only in backward bizarro leftist America can having the flag of YOUR COUNTRY in your classroom be construed as a bad thing.

[justshutupandtakeit]

You claimed putting flags in classrooms was disruptive. I claim anyone upset or disrupted by such IS a disrupter and therefore disrupting disrupters is a GOOD thing. How could a flag standing peacefully in the corner cause ANY patriot to be disrupted. The idea is ludicrous.

This is a good way to smoke out those who do NOT have America's best interest at heart. There are those in this country who HATE everything about it and who will not stop at anything to destroy it. Those people are MY deadly enemies and I will fight them to the last breath. As you have seen they are also the enemies of almost all who come to FR.