Liberal vs Conservative: Clarification Needed!!!

Pioneer Press ^ | 09/14/03 | Art Coulson

[Eva]

Thanks for the opportunity to set this guy straight. This is one of my favorite topics. I'll post my response later.

[RockyMtnMan]

This is easy; The easiest way to determine if your a conservative is to talk politics with a liberal. By the end of the discussion if the other guy has a red face, throws something at you, or calls you a gun nut, then you are a conservative.

[Just another Joe]

Christian Grose and Jeffrey P. Krans are idiots. They seem to have 'liberal' and 'conservative' completely mixed up.

Iva Deutchman has only one thing wrong. "To be Liberal really means to support a limited government and to believe in individual rights."
That should read, "to be a classic liberal...."

[tacticalogic]

When you combine two terms that are mututally exclusive, you get a null set.

Socialist Libertarian = Anarchist.

[William McKinley]

I agree with both sentences you made there.

The existence of anarchists shows that it is not a null set when you combine the two ideas, which means they are not mutually exclusive.

I think you and I agree, however, that libertarian socialists/anarchists are to be opposed, and that there is a lot of common ground between more prevalent forms of libertarianism and conservatism.

[tacticalogic]

The existence of anarchists shows that it is not a null set when you combine the two ideas, which means they are not mutually exclusive.

Anarchists (the people) are concrete. Anarchy (the philosophy) is abstract. The argument implies that if a person doesn't have a coherent political philosophy, he doesn't exist.

[Jonah Johansen]

It is pretty simple to distinguish between liberal and conservative views.

Study an issue, read about it, think about it, do your best to understand the pros and cons, read some more, think some more. Use as much logic and reason as you can to understand the issue.
When you finally think you know something about an issue; when you finally think you have come to an informed logical position; then whatever is the exact opposite of that position will be the liberal position.

Take any issue: Iraq, education, crime, make a list of changes which will make things worse not better. You will then have a list of liberal's ideas to solve these problems.

When reading opinion pieces by liberals; every time you see an assertion or proposition, insert the word 'not'. If it contains the word ‘not’ remove it. If after doing this you read the piece again, it will make a lot more sense to you.

[tacticalogic]

I think you and I agree, however, that libertarian socialists/anarchists are to be opposed, and that there is a lot of common ground between more prevalent forms of libertarianism and conservatism.

We do. The "libertarian socialist" moniker they've adopted is little more than an exercise in creative semantics. There is a lot of overlap between what is contemporary American conservativism and pure libertarianism, but I see a considerable divergence at the paleocon/neocon division.

[poet]

"In a nutshell, conservatism means "circumscribed government"

Shouldn't that be "circumcised" government?

[Publius6961]

Who cares?
Labels are just a tool of the clueless to divert and shut off debate on issues.

Anyone who uses labels immediately gets on my "do not bother with" list.

[Heartbreak of Psoriasis]

Liberals advocate: 1. open borders for illegals and terrorists, 2. higher taxes for working people, 3. watered-down academic standards, 4. killing human fetuses, 5. special privileges for citizens with abnormal sexual orientation, 6. special privileges for citizens with dark skin, 7. euthanasia, and 8. disarming law-abiding citizens.

That's all true, but the fact that the Neo-Cons who support things like abortion on demand, affirmative action, and open borders control the GOP.

Was our beloved President a "conservative" when he praised the recent SCOTUS decision upholding affirmative action (ant-white and anti-asian racial discrimination)?

Is he being "conservative" when he fails to close the border and winks and untold thousands of illegal aliens streaming across our borders even after an horrific terrorist attack by illegal aliens?

Is he being "conservative" when he runs record budget deficits and does nothing to cut rampant federal spending? Even when his party holds a commanding position in both houses of Congress?

I look at all of that, shake my head and pray for a new Revolution.

Neo-Con = STEALTH LIBERAL.

[tpaine]

Christian Grose, professor of government at Lawrence University in Appleton, Wis., and a specialist in American politics, elections and Congress
— "Ideology in the contemporary U.S. can be summed up as two large dimensions or scales: an economic left-right scale and a social left-right scale. Thus, you should also consider the bias on these two issue areas. … On economic issues, 'liberal' in contemporary terms is anything involving more government regulation of the economy while 'conservative' is less regulation of the economy. On social issues, however, the regulation tends to reverse (though not always): Contemporary 'liberals' favor less government intervention in the social realm while 'conservatives' are for government intervention socially."

Thus, the rational man will be 'conservative' on less regulation of the economy, while favoring less government intervention in the social realm.
-- Describes the constitutional libertarian perfectly, imo..

Iva Deutchman, professor of Political Science at Hobart and William Smith Colleges in Geneva, N.Y.
— "The terms have REALLY changed over time in the U.S. Today, the U.S. is about the only country in the world where the term liberal means 'progressive.' In England, Australia, etc. the Liberal Party is indeed the conservative party. When Milton Friedman calls himself a liberal, my students often get confused, but he's right. … To be Liberal really means to support a limited government and to believe in individual rights. Around the time of FDR, things began to change and today the term liberal now is associated with more progressive beliefs (i.e., government intervention) and conservatives are now associated with more limited government (although many conservatives want a government which limits its economic intervention but not its social intervention so they would be happy with laws outlawing abortion, for example.)

So again: "conservatives are now associated with more limited government" -- while they 'support a limited government and believe in individual rights'.
Yep, this is constitutional libertarianism..

We have the beginnings of a consensus..

[Agnes Heep]

Shouldn't that be "circumcised" government?

Either one suits me!