LEADERSHIP: Jessica Lynch and Dirty Rifles

StrategyPage.com ^ | September 13, 2003

[Ispy4u]

This author doesn't know what they are talking about.

There are some valid points but the most glaring mistake to me is here.

Not only were non-combat troops not getting a memorable rough experience in basic, but they were not learning some really fundamental combat skills. The most important one was the need to keep their rifles clean, and under what conditions they were to use them, and how to use them.

In basic training everyone, no matter their MOS, receives the same marksmanship and weapons maintenance training. Failure to maintain your weapon at any point in your career is your fault. It also points to an obvious deficiency in NCO leadership of this unit because those weapons, especially in a combat zone, should be inspected regularly, for me and mine it would be at least daily.

[Lurker]

I'd prefer the M14. There's still a couple of million in the inventory.

Nothing says 'die right now raghead' like 7.62 NATO.

L

[Ispy4u]

Perfectly functioning is not necessary.

Every soldier is taught "immediate action" for a weapons malfunction. Good soldiers can perform this action in less than 3 seconds. This unit obviously had very few combat ready soldiers, sad that even though they had the opportunity to perform well they failed and many died.

But it's ok because PFC Lynch hit the lotto.

[Ispy4u]

This still falls back on the soldier performance issue.

Even though the weapon may not be the best in the world those soldiers have been supplied with more training than any other set in the world. It still didn't help them because they did not use it.

When they left Kuwait, they may have been afraid, but they obviously didn't take the war seriously, and they paid an extremely high price.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

You're welcome. : )

[Lurker]

You're correct of course.

The CO of that unit should be relieved of command and someone who can teach and require basic weapons proficiency and maintenance should be put in charge.

The bad guys don't care if they kill REMFs or combat soldiers.

L

[MarkL]

While there were at it they could get a decent round for desert warfare, like the 7.62 Nato. In other words, bring back the Garand.

You won't get a flame from me... But I happen to love my thumb, and unlike the TV show, 8 simply isn't enough... So I'd vote for the M-14. BTW, the Garand isn't 7.62 NATO, but 30-06. But the M-14 is.

Mark

[Prodigal Son]

Here there was another eight weeks of AIT (Advanced Individual Training) that emphasized the stress and strain of effective infantry training.

AIT for an infantryman is only 5 weeks. In addition, infantry is (or was last time I looked) a one station unit training- ie, basic and AIT sort of run together. You go through both with the same people and same drills all in one place- Ft Benning, for 13 weeks total. At any rate, normal basic is 8 weeks, Infantry AIT is 5.

[Moosefart]

My dad had a 30-06 just like the top one from WWII. He let me shoot it when I was about 10. Turned my sholder black and blue...lol The thing was extremely accurate but kicked like hell.

[mrs tiggywinkle]

**Perfectly functioning is not necessary. Every soldier is taught "immediate action" for a weapons malfunction. Good soldiers can perform this action in less than 3 seconds. This unit obviously had very few combat ready soldiers, sad that even though they had the opportunity to perform well they failed and many died. But it's ok because PFC Lynch hit the lotto. **

Does the 3 second action pertain to Iraqi sandstorm situations as well?

[Ispy4u]

The 3 second action is known as S.P.O.R.T.S

It pertains to any situation where your weapon misfires. Yes it can be done in a sandstorm very easily. Weather conditions are no excuse for weapons failure except in the most extreme such as weapon is frozen due to freezing rain, I had that happen to me once.

I also have been in a sandstorm and used my weapon, with only a small amount of time devoted daily to weapons maintenance it will almost always function fine.

3ID Soldiers and Marines faced the same exact sandstorm and their weapons worked.

Only in very few situations have I seen SPORTS fail to rectify the situation. Usually it is due to poor maintenance, but it can be caused by ammunition failure or weapons part failure.

[mrs tiggywinkle]

Thank you, Ispy4u. I'm wondering then if those who *did* have difficulty keeping their weapons clean...meant that they had to clean them many times/take extra precaution/etc throughout their duty.

If Pfc Lynch didn't take those necessary extra precautions then I would only assume that others in her unit (not direct combat) would take the same route, be they male or female. I can only wonder, if they had taken the best care possible of their weapons, would they have fought their way out of that horrendous situation...and experienced less loss of life? We'll never know I suppose.

[Ispy4u]

Based on my experience with Arab armies and their counterparts, a mildly fierce reaction to an ambush will easily send them scattering. When faced with a foe that has the means and the will to fight they almost always lose, they are undiciplined and usually follow orders more out of fear than any sense of duty that we can understand. Keep in mind this is a broad generalization but that doesn't make it untrue.

The overwhelming majority, even in the Republican Guard, are nowhere near as proficient with their weapons, tactics, and procedures as our military. But the number one rule of combat is the same as the boy scout motto, Be Prepared, it is obvious that this unit was not, and the fault runs from the lowest soldier to their commander, and even on to his commander. I'm sure there were a few who were prepared but a disorganized reaction to an ambush is the same as no reaction at all.

[jaykay]

Good to see the anti-lynch gang now has a new thread to do their bashing on. The other one with 1500 posts was getting pretty rediculous.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

I realize how difficult it is for you to tolerate people whose opinions differ from yours, but maybe for one thread you can pull it off.

I pinged some people here who have military experience, and some with combat experience. Their input in this discussion has value.

You're just going to have to live with that.

[jaykay]

I can live with people having opinions different than mine just fine. I can live with this relentless flogging of a lame horse as well, but I have to question the value of continuing with it. As for these people with military and combat experience with valuable contributions to make, contributions from such people would be more valuable on other topics, such as the ongoing situation in Iraq, the war on terror, Iran and Syria, Pakistan and Afganistan and North Korea. If everyone hasn't made their points about Lynch, the blundering 507th, the Army's poor training methods and the effect of women on the military and driven them all the way in by now, they never will.

[Chief_Joe]

This unit obviously had very few combat ready soldiers...
But it's ok because PFC Lynch hit the lotto.

This whole article is full of it. There is no such thing as a non-combat soldier, the very mention of such shows the lack of knowledge of Army's mission. This article is an attempt to divert attention away from Lynch's poor performance during the ambush, for, by all accounts, she too should have been brought up on dereliction of duty charges. Does anyone really believe Ms. Lynch was never taught how to clean her weapon? The truth is that this idiot had no intention of fighting -she was just there for the ride.

[Ispy4u]

I agree.

[milemark]

Most of the 507ths weapons jammed, but I guess it was all Lynch's fault. Why don't you people issue torches and pitchforks to your gang and head off to W. Va. if you're so desperate to make her pay for getting all of her pals killed.