Smyrna 1922: The Destruction of a City (Anniversary of the forgotten genocide)

christianity-books.com ^ | Marjorie Housepian Dobkin

[a_Turk]

Murder and mayhem are a human fasciantion. Religion has been used to serve that tendency against the Kanaanites, against the Native Americans especially in south America, and against you.

[Happy2BMe]

"Once a subjugated despised minority is disarmed, genocide follows like night follows day."

Gun control and gun registration was Hitler's "gift" of security and safety to the German people. It was his FIRST priority and an absolute must if his coming to power were to be successful . . .

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[John H K]

The Turko-Greek war in 1922 was exceptionally brutal and ugly on all sides.

Greeks decided to take advantage of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire to take as much of Turkey as they could (much more than just the Greek Cities on the Turkish Aegean Coast.)

Got halfway across Turkey till Ataturk was able to reorganize and defeat them. Hence, that's why he's a hero.

In their retreat the Greeks did a lot of raping, burning, looting, and pillaging of Turks themselves. Turks returned the favor when they got to the Greek cities of the Turkish coast.

Nobody was really a good guy in that war.

[metesky]

It's an old story that goes beyond 1915/1922. These slaughters have been going on for centuries.

I'm an American.

[Core_Conservative]

I kind of agree with you and your response to poster #8, however, if it weren't for the constant harping on the history of the region, and the forever memory of the people, a great deal of the problems would go away.

We were enemies with the Japanese, English, and numerous other countries, but they are now some of our best allies. If the Middle Eastern Countries would stop teaching the hatred of past atrocities, then maybe they could become friends. I'm not saying to tell them to forget, which would be revisionist history, what I'm saying, is the hatred part - the revenge factor should be minimized.

IMHO

[VOA]

Can't recall what that area's Christians are called; their ancient stone buildings
date back to early Christianity.

This is sort of a wild guess (and I'll probably stand corrected), but I vaguely
think the term "Chaldean" is applied to at least some Christians from that area.

IIRC, some of them are transplanted to Detroit. I read a story about a family of them running
convenience stores in the war-zones of Detroit...carrying Uzis when they transport
the days receipts to the car...

[VOA]

1922? You sound as nutty as the arabs or the Bosnian Christians bitching about
something that happened to them hundreds of years ago.

Even if the time-period gets long on these events, the Turkish atrocity does have
some extra significance.
IIRC, Hitler took note that the Turks had gotten away with liquidating most
of the Armenian Christians in their territory when considering what he'd do
with Germany's Jews.

These sort of events deserve study/review, just so we can spot the same d-mn thing
happening again and maybe nip it in the bud.
(at least once in a while...)

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Oh I completely agree, learning how to get along is by far best for all.

Your example of Europe is valid, but don't forget that Europe shares many core circumstances and values (race, industrialization, etc.). Japan too adapted to dealing with western countries when the benefits of trade with the West became of interest. But in neither of these cases were the populace encumbered by a 10th century religious fanaticism that conditions its people to believe that they CANNOT get along with anyone who is not "of them". This makes all the difference.

It is radical Islam that MUST adapt, not the other way around. There is simply no way to get along with a people who are sworn to your destruction. Examples of this can be found throughout the Middle East and in 20 of the 22 active conflicts throughout the world. In every case the conflict is about Muslims attacking "others". IMO it is time for the World to wake up and smell the coffee.

[dennisw]

rack him!

[dennisw]

Today is NOT the anniversary of any "genocide" , but it is the anniversary of the final battle between Greeks and Turks in Anatolian grounds.................

I don't believe any of the rot you post. The Turks will never ever be able to change the truth. Which is that you massacred more than a million Greek and Armenian civilians in the early 1900s. The 1920s.

Many Turks were killed by Greeks in war and vis versa. But the Greeks and Armnenians did not massacre Turk civilians except in a few cases. OIW The Turks killed enough civilians to commit genocide while the Armenians/Greek don't come close.

[Swiss]

Ok then it reminds me of Andrew Jackson actions against the Indians.

Or the Bombing of Dresden

i.e. it's war things like this happen.

[Aric2000]

One half of the story is missing, and I find that placing blame on the Turks totally is misleading and WRONG.

THe Greeks and Armenians burned the city, NOT the Turks.

They swore to burn the city if the Turks took it, and they did.

The genoicide etc, I believe has been way overblown, and I think the Greeks, Armenians, etc have just as much blood on their hands. To cry that they are guiltless Lily white virgins is ridiculous in the extreme.

To hate the Turks for a "genocide" and destruction of the city is revisionist history at it's worst.

Learn from it and MOVE on, the hatred that some of you people are spouting is sad to say the least.

It is history, the people, ALL the people, Greek, Armenian, Turkish, etc, that perpetrated all of these, are all safely dead. Now learn from it and move on.

But this continued hatred of one race of people, shows the same attitude that you all seem to despise so much.

I feel bad for you guys, I really do.

It's like when I go south and some southerner calls me a Yankee. Excuse me? I didn't kill anybody in the civil war, I didn't do any atrocities personally. TO blame ME for someone elses actions, who are now ALL dead, is a little insane.

This bloodlust you guys have is shameful.

[Allan]

Here's a link: Assyrian News Agency

[Destro]

A superior Greek army? I guess Greece can be described as the Israel of the Balkans a small country with a disproportionately strong army but Greece was never superior in military manpower to the Turks who outnumbered them. As the books I have linked indicate, the superpowers colluded to the Turkish "victory".

In addition the Turks did not expel an army-a common Balkan occurrence which would create no lasting animus. The Turks liquidated 99% of their territory of Greeks and Armenians who lived in Asia Minor for 3,000 year plus.

You are correct in that August 30th is the Turkish anniversary but the Turks are silent to the other anniversary when in September of 1922 Kemal ordered the city burned to the ground and its Christians killed off or expelled.

[Destro]

Well said, dennisw.

[Destro]

The Turkish genocide denial is to charge that the Greeks and Amrenians killed themselves off. Kemal took the coty August 30th, 1922--the fire did nt take place until September - after the Greek forces were gone. There was no fighting in the city when the 4,000 year old city was set alight.

[Aric2000]

And the Greeks tried to clear all of thier territories of Turks as well.

All's fair in Love and War as the saying goes.

AS I said before, learn from it and move on.

ALL parties have enough blood on their hands for the guilt to be spread evenly all around.

Learn from it and make sure that it doesn't happen again, is the ONLY piece of advice and lesson that you people should be taking from this.

Again, this continued hatred does nothing but create the possibility of it happening again, shows poorly on you possibly learning from it, and when it does happen again, who will you blame for it?

I'll point right at you and say, hey, I told you to learn from it and move on, but you insisted on holding onto your grudges and revisionist history.

[Destro]

As a % of population there are more "Turks" living in Greece than there are Greeks and Armenians living in Turkey.

In 1955 the Turks held a pogrom that erased the remaning native Greeks in "Istanbul".

Cyprus followed in another generation. After Cyprus the next Turkish generation went after the Kurds.

Every Turkish generation seems to need a victim to scapegoat.

[Aric2000]

Your mind is obviously made up, that's fine, believe your revisionist history, but I have read in many places that the citizens of the city, THEMSELVES burned it in order that the Turks would not get the city and it's supplies intact.

It would have been the ultimate in stupidity for the Turks to burn the city, and that is one thing that the Turks were not, STUPID.

And I never said that the Greeks and Armenians killed themselves off, I said that there is more then enough blame to go around.

Again, to claim that the Greeks and Armenians are lily white virgins in this whole mess, would be self delusional and revisionist.

2 and 3 can play the blame game, now quit playing it, LEARN from it and move on.