The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

The Bible - Luke 18 ^ | about 1970 years ago | Jesus Christ

[Chancellor Palpatine]

You can't compare Roy Moore's acts as a government official establishing his sect of Christianity as the "official" religion of Alabama in defiance of court orders to the civil disobedience of Rosa Parks or Ghandi in seeking political and economic rights for oppressed people.

And don't even try to pretend that a prohibition on government facility support for faith is repression.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Strawman. Just because some motorhead proclaims a piece of paper is religious doesn't make it so. They'd have to show that an entire faith system built up over, which they can't.

[AppyPappy]

So it's your view that certain types of speech should be banned if they are viewed as religious. Right?

[AppyPappy]

You can't compare Roy Moore's acts as a government official establishing his sect of Christianity as the "official" religion of Alabama in defiance of court orders

Speaking of strawmen.

[Polycarp]

("What if the Hokey Pokey is really what its all about?" - Jean Paul Sartre)

More truth to your tagline than you my realize---Hokey Pokey: The origins of this song date back into history. It was used as a skit on the Roman Catholic "Holy Communion" from whence came the title "HOKEY COKEY". How "Cokey" turned into "Pokey" is not clear.

Back in 17th century Puritan England anything 'popish' or Roman Catholic was viewed with great suspicion and open to, at best, ridicule. The Hokey-Cokey, with its song and actions, is a mimicry of the Roman Catholic Mass. In those days the priest faced the altar (not the people) and performed several actions as he consecrated the bread and wine at Holy Communion. The words of the service were in Latin. You put your left arm in ......etc was ridiculing the priest as he lifted his arms heavenward during the rite. You do the Hokey- Cokey and you turn around............ was when the priest turned to face the congregation with the host (consecrated bread) to offer it to them.

Hokey-Cokey......... hokey-cokey is a corruption of the Latin words of consecration - Hoc est corpus: 'This is my body' (Note: many of the strange words and phrases of our language are corruptions of other languages introduced to our country over the years and few were educated enough to speak or understand Latin). Knees bend, arm stretch, ra-ra-ra....... knees bend is a ridicule of the genuflection (a kind of religious curtsey to the altar) of the priest, arm stretch is when he holds up his hands at the point of consecration in the service, and ra-ra-ra is just a mimicry of the Latin words and prayers they didn't understand.

[Polycarp]

("What if the Hokey Pokey is really what its all about?" - Jean Paul Sartre)

More truth to your tagline than you my realize---Hokey Pokey: The origins of this song date back into history. It was used as a skit on the Roman Catholic "Holy Communion" from whence came the title "HOKEY COKEY". How "Cokey" turned into "Pokey" is not clear.

Back in 17th century Puritan England anything 'popish' or Roman Catholic was viewed with great suspicion and open to, at best, ridicule. The Hokey-Cokey, with its song and actions, is a mimicry of the Roman Catholic Mass. In those days the priest faced the altar (not the people) and performed several actions as he consecrated the bread and wine at Holy Communion. The words of the service were in Latin. You put your left arm in ......etc was ridiculing the priest as he lifted his arms heavenward during the rite. You do the Hokey- Cokey and you turn around............ was when the priest turned to face the congregation with the host (consecrated bread) to offer it to them.

Hokey-Cokey......... hokey-cokey is a corruption of the Latin words of consecration - Hoc est corpus: 'This is my body' (Note: many of the strange words and phrases of our language are corruptions of other languages introduced to our country over the years and few were educated enough to speak or understand Latin). Knees bend, arm stretch, ra-ra-ra....... knees bend is a ridicule of the genuflection (a kind of religious curtsey to the altar) of the priest, arm stretch is when he holds up his hands at the point of consecration in the service, and ra-ra-ra is just a mimicry of the Latin words and prayers they didn't understand.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Not at all. Roy Moore the individual (when he is off the state clock) can go to church, can attend devotionals, can become a prolific speaker and writer regarding matters of Evangelical theology.

Roy Moore the Chief Justice cannot use his office to further those ends - period.

[trebb]

You can't compare Roy Moore's acts as a government official establishing his sect of Christianity as the "official" religion of Alabama in defiance of court orders to the civil disobedience of Rosa Parks or Ghandi in seeking political and economic rights for oppressed people.

And don't even try to pretend that a prohibition on government facility support for faith is repression.

Why not? I happen to believe that those that are trying to remove any form of religion from the public eye (those rabid enough to do what the ACLU is doing now aren't likely to stop anytime soon) will eventually move on from government sites to public sites and try to destroy religion in its entirety. I believe thay are perverting the intent of the Constitution and activist Judges and floks who are willing to stand back and watch are aiding and abetting an insidious enemy of the Nation.

[gaspar]

"Abject defiance"??? What did Rosa Parks accomplish?

[AppyPappy]

Referring to the monument, you believe that certain types of speech should be banned from public buildings because they are religious. Is that correct?

[Chancellor Palpatine]

I didn't know that - thanks! (there is an interesting tale about "Ring Around the Rosie" and the Black Plague - don't know if its true or not, though.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Don't mix terms - "public" and "government" are not interchangeable.

[AppyPappy]

the individual (when he is off the state clock) can go to church, can attend devotionals, can become a prolific speaker and writer regarding matters of Evangelical theology.

And by all means you should be able to complain about the government AS LONG as you don't do it in a public building. You can do it in a church or the mall but let's not allow it a public building because someone might be offended. That's reasonable, don't you think?

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Your government officials cannot use their official facilities to promote and advance their faith. Period.

[lugsoul]

There is zero - ZERO - Constitutional basis for removing religious objects or displays from private (i.e. NOT Government) property, and I will offer the pledge for every FReeper who disagrees with Moore's stance that each and every one of us would fight tooth and nail to prevent the state or federal government from trying to regulate such displays on private property.

No one needs to be concerned about that. The issue of "taking God out of plain sight" is not an issue, as long as you don't require government sponsorship of your faith.

[AppyPappy]

Your government officials cannot use their official facilities to promote and advance their faith. Period.

So you don't think government officials should be allowed to advance their beliefs in government facilities. Or do you just want to ban speech for them that you call "faith"?

[AppyPappy]

I saw a poster in a government building advertising the local baseball team schedule. Does that mean the government sponsors that team?

[John Beresford Tipton]

That's interesting.It must be little known because when I was going to college mixers at Manhattanville and Marymount, though the nuns were quick with a "leave room for the Holy Ghost" when the grinding got too intense, the Hokey Pokey was a favorite, ranking up there with the Bunny Hop.

[trebb]

Don't mix terms - "public" and "government" are not interchangeable.

I know they aren't interchangeable - I'm saying once they get their way with government areas, they will try to suppress any public display too...

[Texas_Dawg]

I supported his right to put it up. He lost in the courts. Take it down.