Carelessness and Casualness in worship

The Middletown Bible Church ^ | 08/19/03 | various authors

[RaceBannon]

I am quite sure Tommy thinks he looks much better. And he is grateful now that he has heard and believed the Gospel. See how is apeearance shows he has changed and is a new Creature in Christ.

[PlutoPlatter]

Tommy was FORCED to cut his hair, change his clothes, change his name, forsake his language all in the name of religiosity.

Did his conversion lead to a great revival among the Native American people no... look at their state now they are among the most unchurched people in the US today.

They were conquered and forced into submission, hopefully many did see Jesus as He is inspite of this travesty.

God's love and gospel could have been presented to them in a manner that didn't demand for them to change to look like the white man.

Obviously you don't know much about American Indians, you are nuts if you think this was a good thing.

[RaceBannon]

I don't?

I collect old history books.

Mostly from New England history, but I only buy them if they were written before the Civil War.

I think I know a little more than you on this.

He had tobe taught to dress like that, I agree, but I am sure he was glad once he understood.

You need to read more. Start with your Bible maybe?

[RaceBannon]

If Jesus is so popular at your church, I would wonder if it is the Jesus of the Bible at all.

[PlutoPlatter]

You don't know what I know about Native Americans or the Bible Mr. Bannon.

You are so completely wrong on this and the music issue.
Forced Conversions are a stain on Christianity and God is grieved at the way his people have twisted His message.

I can't believe the way you think about things, everytime you speak you sound all the crazier.

[DanTheAdmin]

"(Luke 8:27 KJV) And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs."

There is no reference they are new clothes, they may have been borrowed. He was naked and nuts before, that's why that's even mentioned.

Weak, Race.

[PlutoPlatter]

The seventeenth-century New England Puritan missionaries largely set the course for modern missions. They defined their task as preaching the Gospel so that Native Americans would be converted and receive personal salvation. But early in their missionary experience these New Englanders concluded that Indian converts could only be Christians if they were "civilized." The model by which they measured their converts was English Puritan civilization. The missionaries felt compassion and responsibility for their converts. They gathered these new Christians into churches for nurture and discipline and set up programs to transform Christian Indians into English Puritans.

[PlutoPlatter]

As much as anything, when the government and church run schools as well as church missionaries cut the hair of our young boys and girls, it symbolized the attempt to civilize native people and turn them into good little Englishmen, Dutchmen, Frenchmen, etc. . . . EuroAmericans. The problem with these bad haircuts, change of traditional fashion and clothing, and the forced replacement of language and culture, is that it is a denial of a people's Godgiven identity and existence. If I can be so bold, it could even legitimately be viewed as a kind cultural genocidea type of cultural circumcision.

[PlutoPlatter]

Hudson Taylor, one of my heroes in the faith, a great missionary to China, also grew his hair long and wore it in a braid. Consequently, he was kicked out of the missionary compound by his fellow British comrades. He had begun to reject their "Christian" culture in favor of the heathen culture of these Chinese pagans. He went on to become one of the most fruitful missionaries ever.

[PlutoPlatter]

I believe there is a prophetic call from the heart of God to the Anglo Church in America to recognize their historical oversight and ostracism of native brethren from the mission of the Church and to make amends.

[PlutoPlatter]

You are going love this quote and I'm sure you will twist it with your theology.

I am a red man. If the Great Spirit had desired me to be a white man he would have made me so in the first place.
— Sitting Bull, Hunkpapa Sioux

[Tench_Coxe]

Luke 21:1-4

1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men that were casting their gifts into the treasury. 2 And he saw a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. 3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, This poor widow cast in more than they all: 4 for all these did of their superfluity cast in unto the gifts; but she of her want did cast in all the living that she had.

[RaceBannon]

And like many of the posts to me, that verse quotation has nothing to do with the subject of the article.

People need to keep on topic here.

From Scripture, state where God does not want us to look our best when we worship.

State where God does not want us to be zealous to remain faithful in worship.

[RaceBannon]

Stay on topic with the article. This is not about what you wear everyday while cleaning the house, it is about how you appear before Him in worship in the assembly.

Too many people here skip the meaning of this article and make claims that I am calling for people who come to church for the first time to be thrown out if they wear jeans and a t-shirt.

This article is not written to the unsaved, it is written to professing believers, those who are assumed to be genuinely born again, and it is about people who no longer care to dress their best but have become lax and careless about their appearance.

Even in our flesh, we look at others different if they refuse to see that their torn clothes make them look sloppy, especially when they can easily afford to buy new clothes.

The articles is about people who do have jobs, who do have money, who do have nice clothes, but have decided that God is not worthy of dressing up for in Worship because of some misguided belief that God just isn't worth the effort to look our best for.

(but that dinner with the school principal or our boss is...)

[RaceBannon]

I knew from what I saw at those Baptist churches I atended that the Church has gotten real lax in the world, but to see so many defend this like we see here, it is an eye opener.

[SLB]

Bump for reading and commenting on tomorrow

[Quix]

Great points and illustrations.

Thanks.

[Quix]

Such a potent couple of lines. Impressive. Thanks.

[Quix]

Depends on what you mean by new.

We don't know that he had newly made, never worn clothes. We don't know that they were high class. We don't know that they were expensive or even not threadbare. We could suspect strongly from a LOT of cultural aspects that they were probably very plain laborer's clothes. And they may well have been used.

Trying to equate this person with folks strutting in their Sunday best just doesn't wash with me.

[Quix]

Your straw-dog response is not fitting.

A hideous extreme is not the only option.

Many cultural distinctives are quite neutral vis a vis the Gospel. It is an insult to God's love in diversity, uniqueness, etc. to presume that some homoginized lowest common denominator of period European dress and customs are akin to Godliness.

Very saintly churches in Africa have included tribal groups worshipping anointedly and freely with bare breasted women for decades. I don't know if it still goes on or not. God's Spirit would routinely move dramatically in the services so it was clear Holy Spirit was not the least bit put off by native dress in those cases.

Smug European snobbishness is NOT the same as Godliness.