Film about Christ raises concerns of anti-Semitism

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, WI ^ | 8/11/03 | AMY WESTFELDT

[ultima ratio]

I don't associate anti-Semitism--which is a prejudice that does not usually involve hatred--with Hitler's genocide. Those who do so attempt to link ordinary Christian-Jewish conflicts to Hitler's hatred. This is ridiculous.

[veronica]

Discussions about this movie sure brings out the anti-semites. Mel Gibson's deliberate slow "rollout" of his film is having the unintended (I hope) consequence of fomenting animus against Jews, mostly among those so inclined already. A shame really. Why doesn't he just premiere the movie when it's done, like most directors do?

[Eternal_Bear]

Rewrite the script with Nazi Germans as the villains. That will make everyone happy.

[veronica]

I don't associate anti-Semitism--which is a prejudice that does not usually involve hatred...

Then what is anti-semitism about, in your opinion, if it's not about hatred of Jews? You don't associate the Holocaust with anti-semitism? Are you daft? Have you ever read the writings of the Nazis?

[SJackson]

I don't associate anti-Semitism--which is a prejudice that does not usually involve hatred--with Hitler's genocide. Those who do so attempt to link ordinary Christian-Jewish conflicts to Hitler's hatred. This is ridiculous.

The idea that antisemitism doesn't involve hatred is ridiculous (as well as factually incorrect-check a dictionary), unless the expulsion of Jews from Europe, as proposed in the late 1800s by the Antisemitische party in Germany and France is an ordinary Christian-Jewish conflict.

It's odd you seem to view anti-Semitism as a Christian-Jewish phenomenon.

[veronica]

Hitler exterminated 6 million Jews, but he didn't hate them. He just disliked them alot.

[ultima ratio]

I focus on the Christian-Jewish clashes because that is what is usually cited by some Jewish scholars as giving rise to Hitler. They charge the Catholic Church with historic anti-Semitism and claim its policies led directly to Hitler. This I reject for the following reason.

For every action there's a reaction. Freemasonry and Bolshevism were historical movements in which Jews were heavily represented in leadership roles and which directly attacked Catholicism. Of course there was a reaction to this by way of a rise in prejudice. But this is not the same uncaused psychopathology that Hitler represented.

[Prolixus]

The pre-emptive strike was on the part of the ADL and the Boston College professors who charged anti-Semitism. ...

Qui bono?

[Cachelot]

I don't associate anti-Semitism--which is a prejudice that does not usually involve hatred

That's as delusional an argument as I've read anywhere, and I've seen some bizarre spins on this.

Go read up on Wilhelm Marr. And blood libel, while you're at it.

[veronica]

For every action there's a reaction. Freemasonry and Bolshevism were historical movements in which Jews were heavily represented in leadership roles and which directly attacked Catholicism. Of course there was a reaction to this by way of a rise in prejudice. But this is not the same uncaused psychopathology that Hitler represented.

Ah so now we get to it. Hitler didn't hate Jews, he was just trying to rid Germany of Bolsheviks and Freemasons, and rightfully so, eh? (In other words the Jews deserved it.) Seen that argument before, at such lovely venues as LF and Stormfront. Hitler's Final Solution was only a reaction. I wonder what Mel Gibson would think if he knew a portion of his defenders hold such loony views.

[ultima ratio]

Is anti-Catholicism genocidal? Neither is anti-Semitism per se. Same difference.

[veronica]

Anti-semitism has lead to mass murder. Anti-semites throughout history have tended to take action against Jews. If one denies that one is ignorant, or willfully ignorant.

[ultima ratio]

I never said that. I said that there was sound reason for Catholics to resent Jews who led movements in Europe which were anti-Catholic. This is historical fact. I also said that brand of anti-Semitism was of a different order from what Hitler did. If you can't follow an argument, then but out.

[ultima ratio]

Bull hockey.

[verity]

This subject is wearing thin.

[veronica]

Are you a Holocaust denier? Only a Holocaust denier would reject the notion that Hitler committed mass murder because of his pathological hatred of Jews.

[SJackson]

Ah so now we get to it. Hitler didn't hate Jews, he was just trying to rid Germany of Bolsheviks and Freemasons, and rightfully so, eh? (In other words the Jews deserved it.) Seen that argument before, at such lovely venues as LF and Stormfront. Hitler's Final Solution was only a reaction. I wonder what Mel Gibson would think if he knew a portion of his defenders hold such loony views.

Well, Hutton Gibson is of the opinion that Vatican II was a fraud perpretrated by Freemasons and Jews, and it's my understanding Mel rejects that, so he'd probably just consider them, in your words, loony. so I presume he'd consider them loony.

[ultima ratio]

Here is the slander you just addressed to me: "Ah so now we get to it. Hitler didn't hate Jews, he was just trying to rid Germany of Bolsheviks and Freemasons, and rightfully so, eh? (In other words the Jews deserved it.) Seen that argument before, at such lovely venues as LF and Stormfront. Hitler's Final Solution was only a reaction. I wonder what Mel Gibson would think if he knew a portion of his defenders hold such loony views."

I NEVER SAID THIS. Reread my post. You owe me an apology.

[Freakazoid]

Those who fear "The Passion" could fuel anti-Semitism, however, until this weekend hadn't been allowed to see the film. Seven months before its release, this extraordinary vanity project is stirring passions over Gibson's exclusionary screenings and the potential for a negative depiction of Jews.

All in the second paragraph. Way over the top. Not worth reading further.

[ultima ratio]

Can you read English? I said just the opposite of what you are accusing me of. I said Hitler's pathological hatred caused him to commit genocide. I said this hatred was different from routine anti-Semitism which flourished in Europe prior to his rise. Again, you owe me an apology.