Adolescent Arguments in the Abortion Debate

Association for Interdisciplinary Research in Values and Social Change Vol. 17, No. 3 ^ | July/August 2002 | Wanda Franz, Ph.D.

[XBob]

37 - "Also, legalizing abortion has not made it safe. "

You make some interesting, yet invalid observations, comparing banning of dangerous things to allowing a less dangerous thing.

I am old enough to remember when abortion was illegal in many places, and when it was quite dangerous. It is far far safer now that it is legal. In fact, it is safer than bringing a fetus to term and delivering it as a baby.

So, you are in favor of banning a relatively safe procedure to be replaced by an even less safe procedure? If you will check the problems with delivering babies and the price of mal-practice insurance, obstetric/gynocology doctors are leaving the profession in droves. In fact, my Mother mentioned in passing, that about 2 months ago, a cousin of ours in Pennsylvania just went to Canada to deliver a baby because she couldn't find a doctor in her area in Pennsylvania.

Strange logic, indeed.

[MHGinTN]

If you are going to use this argument, then so is God or Mother Nature, as 40% of all embryos fail to develop into human beings. Xbob You assume that which you seek to prove ... 'embryonic individual lives are not human beings, yet' and expect folks to give any credance to your babble?

So abortionists are merely emulating nature/God. Xbob Your juvenile syllogisms are astonishing for their nihilistic simplicity, but I ought not be astonished by your mutagenic thinking after all the threads I've endured of your ignorant offerings.

You make some interesting, yet invalid observations, comparing banning of dangerous things to allowing a less dangerous thing. Xbob Partial birth abortions (to cite but one killing methodology) are designed to kill an alive, individual human being who has not yet been born but who is scientifically, verifiably alive and sentient, even dreaming when asleep and able to learn! Assaulting the baby in the womb with an aim to kill her is very dangerous to the baby (deadly in fact and you champion that) and effects the woman in whose body the baby is/was receiving life support, as testified to by the women who've had their children killed in utero and lived to regret it. Your chosen omission of this reality is quite telling, X.

I am old enough to remember when abortion was illegal in many places, and when it was quite dangerous. Lying to win points? Abortion has always been a legal option for the physician treating the life of the woman, electable if the pregnancy is an imminent threat to her life. Nice try though; you represent your father well ... It is far far safer now that it is legal. No, it is far more deadly ... fewer babies survive the assault and tens-of-millions have been exterminated on your altar of choice, X. In fact, it is safer than bringing a fetus to term and delivering it as a baby. Well, let's see, one out of two who enter an abortionists 'sanctum sanctorum of death' leaves as a dead human being. Hardly what you have tried to characterize, X.

If you will check the problems with delivering babies and the price of mal-practice insurance, obstetric/gynocology doctors are leaving the profession in droves. 'Ahh, but you have the enlightened solution, don't you ghoul, just kill the little ones before they become a nuisance! Yes, you will feel right at home in your final destination, X. (That's what's known as an opinion, pseudo-satre.) In fact, my Mother mentioned in passing and you ought to thank her that she didn't have your attitudes when you were in the embryo age or fetal age, 'cause you're a defender of serial killing. Enough of you. You have a certain stench to you

[TigersEye]

If you are going to use this argument, then so is God or Mother Nature, as 40% of all embryos fail to develop into human beings.

So abortionists are merely emulating nature/God.

Abortionists intentionally kill humans. So you are saying that nature/God purposely kills humans? Are you also saying that abortionists are the same as nature/God?

[XBob]

43 - "Abortionists intentionally kill humans. So you are saying that nature/God purposely kills humans? Are you also saying that abortionists are the same as nature/God?"

Well, they emulate natural processes. So, they are emulating nature or God is pretty clumsey or inept if 40% of 'his' work, in this area doesn't work. When I went to school, 60% was a FAILING grade in school.

Would you get on a plane which only has a 60% chance of arriving safely?

Or could it be, you are defining 'people' with a different criteria than 'God' is using?

You can't have it both ways.

(Note for helping to understand my position - I am an agnostic).

[ought-six]

"More importantly, a fertilized egg does not trigger much empathy since it has no recognizable human form and no ability to feel pain (no neurons, no pain)."

Not to a liberal. A liberal will go ballistic to "save the life of" a fertilized egg of an owl, for example, and will shove through legislation that will do just that. However, that same liberal will try and argue that the fertilized egg of a himan is not life at all, and thus is not worthy of any compassion, and thus the liberal is opposed to any legislation protecting it. With a liberal, it depends on what's fertilized: a spotted owl or a human. The former has all the protections a liberal can create; the latter is to be flushed down the toilet without a second thought.

[XBob]

not all liberals believe in abortion and not all conservatives don't believe in abortion, and citing liberal 'logic' or 'non-logic' as it were, is not a good way to defend non-abortion.

[TigersEye]

Well, they emulate natural processes.

What natural process grabs a baby by its head, punctures its skull and sucks its brains out? What natural process cuts a human fetus into pieces in the womb and then sucks everything out?

Or could it be, you are defining 'people' with a different criteria than 'God' is using?
(Note for helping to understand my position - I am an agnostic).

You brought God, nature/God and Mother Nature into this. You tell me what criteria they use to define 'people'. You're the first polytheistic agnostic I've met so I don't know what all you ascribe to those three gods.

[.30Carbine]

Well, they emulate natural processes.

This sort of behavior is only natural to demons.

[.30Carbine]

Well, they emulate natural processes.

This sort of behavior is only natural to demons.

[.30Carbine]

I didn't mean to post that twice.

[TigersEye]

It should have been posted three times!

[ought-six]

"not all liberals believe in abortion and not all conservatives don't believe in abortion, and citing liberal 'logic' or 'non-logic' as it were, is not a good way to defend non-abortion."

Liberals are the ones who are pathologically rabid about abortion, and they are the ones who have imposed a litmus test for judges on that issue alone. I know there are liberals who are not fans of abortion, but it's funny that they never take their leadership to task for being so pro-abortion. In fact, they never say anything. One of my best friends is a liberal, but she is not a big fan of abortion (but she, like EVERY liberal I've ever known, seen or heard, will still hide behind the maxim "it's the woman's choice;" it's kind of like the old adage: "I don't agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.").

[XBob]

43-"Abortionists intentionally kill humans. So you are saying that nature/God purposely kills humans? "

of course, that's pretty obvious isn't it.

There is one thing about this game called 'life', you can't get out of it alive.

If there is an all powerful God/creator, he is also a destroyer, who kills 100% of the people he created.

[XBob]

45 - "A liberal will go ballistic "

It seems to me, I keep running into those conservatives who think we have endless resources, and that an embryo is a person, who are always going ballistic.

[XBob]

47 - "You're the first polytheistic agnostic I've met so I don't know what all you ascribe to those three gods."

Interesting observation. Actually, I am not 'poly-theistic', I merely repeat the beliefs of the many 'theists' I have met who have so many diverse opinions, and damn others who do not believe the 'true' way, 'their' way. I Just try to put it in terms they can understand.

[XBob]

48 - "This sort of behavior is only natural to demons."

As far as demons, I don't really believe in demons either, but if you do, should I add that to my list of 'religious beliefs' related to abortion?

Should I tell my sister-in-law, who had a spontaneous abortion about halfway through her pregnancy, that a demon did it? It's nice to have someone/thing to blame it on.

As far as 'emulating' nature/god, Sorry, I also know of no airplane which flys using feathers and muscle power either. We do what we can.

[XBob]

52 - "Liberals are the ones who are pathologically rabid about abortion"

You really should review this thread and other abortion threads, and see just who is 'pathalogically rabid' about abortion. I have personally found that it usually anti-abortion conservatives.

[TigersEye]

If there is an all powerful God/creator,

Is there or isn't there? You brought "God/creator" and your host of other deities into this.

There is one thing about this game called 'life', you can't get out of it alive.

What point are you making? That life is valueless?

If there is an all powerful God/creator, he is also a destroyer,

Stupid logic. GM builds cars, cars wear out and break down, therefore GM destroys cars. Moron.

... who kills 100% of the people he created.

I don't like your God/creator. If he destroys life then f#ck him.

[TigersEye]

I merely repeat the beliefs of the many 'theists' I have met who have so many diverse opinions, ...

Why? Nothing of your own to believe in nothing of your own to say?

[XBob]

49 - "This sort of behavior is only natural to demons."

I am curious, just what do these demons look like? Are they sort of cute, with pointed ears, and have to wear ski-caps, like Doctor Spock, in Startreck. Or are they fierce looking devils, with horns, pointy ears and tail, and ferocious teeth, like some pictures of the devil, or do they look like the the gothic monsters on gothic cathedrals?