Coming: The Rise Of The "Arnold" Democrats

The Los Angeles Times ^ | 8/10/03 | Tony Quinn

[ambrose]

The same polls which showed Pete Wilson losing to Kathleen Brown by 20% in 1994? Pete Wilson won that election by 15% of the vote in the end.

Do you propose to call off elections based on poll results? Or that a poll number is etched in stone?

This logic is maddening.

We have campaigns to CHANGE initial poll numbers.

[EternalVigilance]

We treat you with contempt because you don't think tactically, don't think strategically, don't plan, can't win and when given influence and your issues given prominence, you drag us down into your pantheon of losers.

No. You treat us with contempt because you think you are superior to us.

That is the nature of arrogance.

[RJCogburn]

Well here I am across the country in NH watching all this. I have been rather critical of GWB's domestic job, arguing repeatedly that he has not governed as a conservative, even though he claims to be one, and his supporters here at FR repeatedly make rationalizations and justifications for him.

I'd like to see Arnold win. I am amused by it all...I would likely feel differently were this happening here but it is all such a show. It would be fascinating to see how he would do as governor.

I can feel this way for a few reasons. It appears that California is such a mess and the legislature there so politicized that nobody is going to be able to fix it short term. Arnold suggests a longer term, business friendly solution which sounds reasonable.

Arnold does not claim, at least to my knowledge, as does GWB, to be a 'conservative' so we should not expect him to govern like one.

Politicians have tried to present themselves as 'professionals' who are the only ones capable of effective governing. That is a bad idea and contrary, I think, to the founders' intentions. In general, vote for the non-pol every time.

Here in NH, we had our own little budget problem. The new governor, Benson, was a zillionaire businessman, not a pol. He is Republican, and the Republicans control by better then 2:1 (veto override numbers)each legislative house. They passed a bloated budget. Benson vetoed it and was able to have it sustained, despite the cries of a lot of the 'professional' Republican legislators.

So, give Arnold a chance. He can hardly do worse than the pros have done.

[ambrose]

Your political role model must be Machiavelli:

Nicolo Machiavelli (1469-1527) The first great political philosopher of the Renaissance was Nicolo Machiavelli (1469-1527). His famous treatise, The Prince, stands apart from all other political writings of the period insofar as it focus on the practical problems a monarch faces in staying in power, rather than more speculative issues explaining the foundation of political authority. As such, it is an expression of realpolitik, that is, governmental policy based on retaining power rather than pursuing ideals.

[Mr. Mojo]

Do you happen to remember how long before the election that the polls showed Wilson behind by 20%?

[Chancellor Palpatine]

I'm sorry, but the responsible executive, be it corporate or governmental, addresses conditions as they're found, and figures out solutions. Sometimes it is by across the board reductions in order to meet shortfalls, sometimes it is by shifting and reallocating resources, and someimes it comes by tax increase. If he chose to jack taxes to support unnecessary frills, then the electorate will burn him later - but if there is some crisis related to temporary conditions, then it won't.

[EternalVigilance]

Many elections swing in the final weeks.

That's why we have those little things called 'campaigns', eh? ;-)

[ambrose]

Yes, isn't that old fashioned, to actually have a campaign? Let's just end this now and declare Arnold the governor based on his 25% showing in the CNN poll of 500 registered voters.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

You treat us with contempt because you think you are superior to us.

There would be that - I forgot.

[EternalVigilance]

Sometimes it is by across the board reductions in order to meet shortfalls, sometimes it is by shifting and reallocating resources, and someimes it comes by tax increase. If he chose to jack taxes to support unnecessary frills, then the electorate will burn him later - but if there is some crisis related to temporary conditions, then it won't.

As California conservative leaders, most notably Tom McClintock, have clearly dilineated, California's problem is not a revenue problem--revenues have grown tremendously in recent years--the problem is an exponential growth in spending.

In case you haven't noticed, there is only one candidate who has addressed this consistently and thoroughly--Tom McClintock.

[EternalVigilance]

There would be that - I forgot.

Yeah.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Campaigns are interesting things. Can any McClintock or Simon bots tell me why Simon (who went through an entire gubernatorial campaign less than a year ago) is only polling at 7 percent? Could it be because the voters heard him and despised him?

Also, in light of Simon's current dismal showing after having given voters several months worth of opportunities to meet him and listen to the issues, what is McClintock's plan to lure those independents along with a goodly chunk of Democrats?

[ambrose]

In case you haven't noticed, there is only one candidate who has addressed this consistently and thoroughly--Tom McClintock.

I don't think he has missed it... he simply does not care. He only cares about having power for the sake of having power. He is partisan Republican, and believes that Arnold has the best chance of winning. If Larry Flynt were a Republican and leading in the polls, he'd probably be supporting him.

I understand where he is coming from, I simply do not agree with it.

[HitmanLV]

Grow up, Eternal. It's not because of what I said so, it's because of the recent history of the state. We have seen what conservatives can do - nothing! Ineffective, impotent, angry, and loving it!

Sorry - build to a good future, don't condemn yourself to the failing past.

[EternalVigilance]

I'd like to see Arnold win. I am amused by it all...I would likely feel differently were this happening here but it is all such a show. It would be fascinating to see how he would do as governor.

If you need amusement, go to the movies or something.

Arnold suggests a longer term, business friendly solution which sounds reasonable.

Fuzzy platitudes that could have come out of Clinton's mouth are hardly what is needed.

You're being too flip about this, man.

[Mr. Mojo]

Has McClintock addressed either gun control or illegal immigration? Considering the overwhelming victories of CA initiatives - subsequently overturned, unfortunately - during the past decade attempting to deal with the latter problem, I think it would be wise for McClintock to campaign hard on the illegal immigration issue. He has nothing to lose, and it appears to be a winning (albeit un-pc) position. Let's hope he has the guts to do it.

[b9]

>>>This logic is maddening<<<

Polls ARE maddening, but do you really think they have no purpose at all?

[EternalVigilance]

...what is McClintock's plan to lure those independents along with a goodly chunk of Democrats?

To talk to them like adults and citizens. To address the actual fundamental and systemic problems of the State; instead of filling their ears with nice-sounding platitudes with no substance.

You might be surprised by how well people respond to being treated like sentient beings.

[ambrose]

Here's a good McClintock "white paper":

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/961389/posts

[Chancellor Palpatine]

As California conservative leaders, most notably Tom McClintock, have clearly dilineated, California's problem is not a revenue problem--revenues have grown tremendously in recent years--the problem is an exponential growth in spending.

You have to win in order to address that in the first place.

How is he going to do that? What aspects of personal magnetism is he going to exude which will carry him through the election, and convince California Democrats to call and write their Democrat legislators to cut the programs and spending McClintock wants to cut? What aspects of social conservatism is he willing to punt so as to appeal to Independents and Democrats to get them to support him in California? And if he does, how many cuts are California "true conservatives" willing to inflict on him?