Jobless rate drops, largely because of discouraged people leaving job market

Associated Press ^ | 08-01-03

[XBob]

55 - "What exactly does one do when one "gives up" on finding a job!"

One goes into sever clinical depression, and you lay on the sofa and vegitate.

[Cold Heat]

Had some problems getting onto the site for about a hour. I don't have a clue why. I am on my old cranky backup PC.

I know precisely what you experienced. I had the same thing happen to me twice.(only lost one wife and two houses, one truck and my sanity for a time)

You are correct about the trades. I am multicraft now but was formerly in realestate and advertising. I am now able to do whatever.

The problems I see with most folks is that they exaust all their resources because they stay in place.

I found that if you put your first and last check in the bank. Have some stuff that you can turn into ready cash, and have the willingness to drag up and go where the work is, that your likelyhood of finding work is one heck of a lot better.

Things are always in a state of flux. You have to be as well or the things will move away from you. You have to chase it and not wait for it to come to you.

Just some advice from a mid fiftyish player who learned the hard way as most men do.

[snopercod]

The Bureau of Labor statistics says "given up" this way:

Of the 1.6 million, 470,000 were discouraged workers who were not currently looking for work specifically because they believed no jobs were available for them.

The link is in [this post].

Keep in mind that this press release was based upon a survey, not actual tax receipt data.

[Non-Sequitur]

Two income families become one income families and women actually become housewives and take care of their kids.

What if it isn't the wife who was laid off?

[waterstraat]

Xlinton made numbers of changes in the reporting of unemployment statistics collection/reporting process, dropping the unemployment rate, markedly, and enhancing his 'boom', which he inherited Regan and Bush tax and econoic changes really started to kick in (it takes 5-10 years).

Now, if you have 'given up', and no longer report at least weekly to the state employment office and register for non-existent jobs, you are no longer counted.

Thanks for the info, that makes sense and explains a lot.

[Cold Heat]

In July, about 1.6 million persons (not seasonally adjusted) were marginally attached to the labor force, little changed from a year earlier

This is what I was talking about!

Note the phrase, "little changed from a year earlier". Then try to figure out why they decided to attatch this to the report as if it was something new!

This is nothing more than a effort to try to make the recovery look like a lie.

[XBob]

I was brought up by parents who were brought up in the depression, and to have a job, any job, was what you did. You get a job, hunkered down, bought a house, and stayed put, at the same job for 30-40 years until you retired, with a comfortable retirement pay.

Well that worked, back in the 50's and early 60's. Then things started changing, and companies started being run by accountants instead of professionals in the industry. Gradually, the quarterly report, and quarterly profit became the corporate goal (no more long term goals), and the companies started shutting down plants, and moving. First they failed to invest in their own basic infrastructure - basic plant equipment and maintenance and upgrades (to save money), then it became uneconomical to fix their neglect, so they had to build a new plant, so they decided to move their plants to cheaper labor areas (south) and the 'rust belt' was created.

Then, they with the invention of container shipping, and really the defeat of the long shoremen union agreement in the early 1980's, that they had to stuff/unstuff any containers within 50 miles of any port, the ability to ship a whole container of goods from Japan to the door of the distributor in anywhere, Kansas, and put imports really on every doorstep in the US.

So, containerization, killed the basic philiosophy of our economy, and then the japanese started moving their production plants to china and did the same thing to japan and killed the japanese economy.

Then in the 90's they started importing workers fronm overseas (actually this happened in 1965 with ted kennedy's change in the immegration laws - but it took about 20-30 years to really start kicking in).

And then in the 90's, even the accountants couldn't keep their quarterly reports working, so they and the top management started cheating - the crooked superceded the hones but misguided accountants,

And so now it comes down to chasing jobs and chasing work.

In the 80's, in the oil crash in Houston, I hung on, hoping to get a job, (3500 foreclosures a month in Houston). My main investment, my house, could only rent for half the mortgage payment, and I lost everything - no jobs on my level and experience, over qualified for cheap inexperience jobs (they knew I would leave if a job came along). I finally let it go for half what I had paid for it. I lost my 40,000 equity on an 80,000 house. And interestingly enough, the IRS rules mean you are taxed if you make money when you sell a house, but if you lose money, it is not even deductable.

The next phase is now in progress, where there will be almost no steady jobs in this country anymore, except for government jobs. And we are headed into a gigantic downward spiral for wage equality with Bengladesh.

And this doesn't even cover the taxation part and the coming US bankruptsy and resulting world crash.

You and Snopercod and me are getting too old to drop everything and 'chase' jobs.

[Cold Heat]

You and Snopercod and me are getting too old to drop everything and 'chase' jobs.

True enough, but if I had to do it, I would.

Fortunately I have but one kid living at home and he is a senior this year. He may be entering the services, not sure yet.

I would much prefer to stay where I am at. I am planning to buy a large camper in a few years(have a small one now) and the wife and I are going to see the rest of North America.

It is possible that I might start another career when I get my worn out body parts replaced. I still have not made up my mind.

[Brimack34]

What is going to happen at the end of the month when people go back too school? The numbers will be up after the summer jobs go away.

[snopercod]

That was an excellent summary, Bob.

I've been building a house here in the mountains for a few years now. We're to the point where I could take a temporary job away from here if I wanted, but the money is just not there like it used to be.

In the "boom" years of the eighties, one could expect to basically double one's income by taking a contract job away from home for a year or so. For the last ten years, the rates have been so low that they're just not worth setting up a second household somewhere. Most don't pay travel expense or even per diem.

Not only that, Reagan's TEFRA in 1986 and the IRS have all but killed contract engineering. That would be a good place to start if Bush really wanted to help this economy.

[Cold Heat]

I never did too much away work, although I did some. I had one tour on a rig and spent about two years traveling while working tower cranes and construction hoists. I suppose I made out ok on the per-diem and expense accts.

But, when you consider the down time and time between projects it all works out in the wash.

Over seas jobs with Aramco etc. were just not in the cards due to the kids. Kid,s need a daddy at least every 3-4 weeks.

I hear that new tax regs are being proposed/or imposed to tax overseas income.

I need to study that a bit, because the long term effects may be quite substantial. I have no comments yet except to say the the salaries will likely be raised to compensate.

[XBob]

70 - "That was an excellent summary, Bob. "

Thankyou. I didn't cover the last part, where now with the development of sophisticated communications in the middle of the 90's, and the internet, that they can shift service jobs off shore, with no trouble.

And as for your astute observations -

"For the last ten years, the rates have been so low that they're just not worth setting up a second household somewhere. Most don't pay travel expense or even per diem. "

yes, when they changed the definition of 'income' and 'contract' and 'employee' in 1987, to assure that the govt would collect more tax money, by removing deductions for for temporary work, and changing the definitions of temporary/contract work, they killed it off. So that you basically take a 'permanent' job, for a 'temporary' time, and you must 'contract' through a 'job shop', and they rake off their big chunk, and become your temporary 'permanent' 'employer', forcing you to move your 'permanent' household for a 'temporary' time.

It gave contract workers the worst of both worlds, and job openings through Contract Engineering Weekly shrunk by about 75-90%.

[XBob]

71 - "I hear that new tax regs are being proposed/or imposed to tax overseas income.

I need to study that a bit, because the long term effects may be quite substantial. I have no comments yet except to say the the salaries will likely be raised to compensate."

Sorry, that won't happen. I have been through it before, the last time they taxed overseas pay (we are the only country that does it).

We will just totally withdraw from the overseas work, and all those jobs will be lost too.

George F. Fischer and his Fischer Report and Manlink systems were the best around until the mid 90's, and it was under his leadership that the overseas tax abatement was re-established.

He has died, and I don't know what has happened to his company, but it was the best in the business.

You might follow some links here in this story to find out more about the subject and status.

http://www.iscworld.com/jobtips.html

Be advised, you need to be in top notch physical condition to get one of these overseas jobs, as they are normally in 'very remote' locations, often hundreds/thousands of miles from the nearest hospital.

[biblewonk]

What if it isn't the wife who was laid off?

Men are not very likely to quit the job market because they have been laid off.

[Non-Sequitur]

Men are not very likely to quit the job market because they have been laid off.

It's not that men have quit the job market, it's more that the job market has quit them.

[autoresponder]

Clinton had a 7% unemployment rate

Then they cooked the books to make them look lower

He also also pumped up the GNP from '98-2000 after the bubble burst to get algore elected and to build a "legacy"

Latest true rate is about 5.1%

#s are easily played with; Clinton merely modified data reporting