10 Koreans Enter Japanese Embassy in Bangkok in Apparent Asylum Bid

AP Breaking ^ | Jul 31, 2003 | Alisa Tang Associated Press Writer

[Amelia]

You know, what is fascinating about this long thread and the endless roundabout is how no one will address the issue of the duties of Korea and Japan, their enormous wealth, their own foreign policy interests and risks, the long and tangled-up histories of the two nations.

Another thing that is fascinating about this long thread is that, if you'll read the article, no one was really sure if indeed the North Koreans in question actually wanted asylum, but it was assumed that they did.

Nothing was said about whether or not the 10 people would or would not be granted asylum, but some people have assumed that they will be granted asylum in the United States, and have tried to turn the thread into a discussion about illegal immigration in the United States rather than a discussion about people going to great lengths to escape the evil regime in North Korea.

[Mamzelle]

The issue in this thread is exploited in a self-serving way. First of all, the individuals from NK chose the Japanese embassy. I say, let the Japanese take responsibility for these immigrants, even if their buses are crowded. It'd be a good start on the road to being helpful to a post-Kim world. I have been denounced as racist for saying as much.

But, in general, both SKorea and Japan ought to prepare for taking responsibility for NK refugees in one way or another after Kim falls. Most of it should and will fall on SKorea (a nation almost as insular and discriminatory as Japan). SKorea will just have to make some adjustments, as all nations do with immigrants. They are most closely tied to the North, have historical and familial relationships. The SKorean could also set up a means to minister to the NKoreans while they are still in the North--this would be the smartest move. But SKorea won't do that if they think they can dump the problem on the US. Keep in mind, the SK has a huge, well-trained, beautifully equipped army and sent no combat troops to Iraq, despite the thousands of Americans who died to free SKorea.

I observe that SKorea in this this thread are very much underestimated. They are an energetic, Christianized, well-armed, affluent Western nation. There is absolutely no reason at all that they cannot take responsibility for their brother to the north.

Japan has many historical ties to NK as well, some of them very hard to look at without turning away. They are very much threatened by Kim, and have a stake in seeing to it that there is a stable post-Kim Korea. And, even though the crowded buses just break my heart, they can find some room and resources to help the refugees.

And the US can take some, as long as it is understood that most of the burden should be on the shoulders of the Asian neighbors of NK--

[Amelia]

The issue in this thread is exploited in a self-serving way.

I'll be the first to agree with you there.

First of all, the individuals from NK chose the Japanese embassy. I say, let the Japanese take responsibility for these immigrants, even if their buses are crowded.

I don't find any reference in the article about who will be responsible for these immigrants - IIRC, certain posters assumed that the United States would be.

It'd be a good start on the road to being helpful to a post-Kim world. I have been denounced as racist for saying as much.

Hopefully, in a post-Kim world, the North Koreans will be able to stay in their homes, and won't have to emigrate anywhere. I believe we're assuming that these people are escaping Kim's regime?

[Mamzelle]

re: Hopefully, in a post-Kim world, the North Koreans will be able to stay in their homes, and won't have to emigrate anywhere. )))

I invite you to read about German reunification. When the borders open, I anticipate a stream of movement. If SKorea is wise, and understands that they *must*--they'll preempt by sending lots of resources north. Or, SKorea could send lots of apologists to the US to call us names, and try to make us take responsibility. Maybe they'll send pictures of crowded buses.

[Amelia]

I invite you to read about German reunification. When the borders open, I anticipate a stream of movement.

All the same, your responses to this article involve counting quite a few chickens before they hatch.

[bonesmccoy]

Actually she was denounced as a racist due to Mewzilla's rather striking comments about the Japanese people... a quick review of her diatribes demonstrates a consistent problem with anti-Japanese views.

[bonesmccoy]

correction... not "mewzilla"...it's "Mamzelle" ... lol

[bonesmccoy]

Hearing you two comment upon the lack of "foreigners" in Japan is hilarious.

Have you ever studied the approach of the US gov't from 1940-1988 to Japanese living in the United States?

I am not aware of any Americans in Japan who have restricted movement, incarceration, or outright inability to become Japanese citizens.

Those laws all existed from the 1900's to the Ford/Reagan years in the US.

The story of international relations has many dark points.

Building stronger ties requires fewer race based characterizations and more focus on economics and trade.

It's called "cooperation".

If you two had your way, we would be back at war again.

[gaijin]

Have you ever studied the approach of the US gov't from 1940-1988 to Japanese living in the United States?

Well, that's an interesting statement, and I trust that you know quite a deal about this. So do tell me about the official legal restrictions existing in the USA as recently as 1988 regarding the residence of Japanese-Americans.

Was it illegal for them to own homes, for example.

[bonesmccoy]

Prior to 1942, Japanese Americans were contributing to nearly every facet of American life on the West Coast. By the end of FDR's reign, the Japanese in America were basically converted from middle class entrepreneurs to a homeless families (fodder for lefty politics). It's a great study in how to create a 50 year voter base!

Initially, the Japanese sent laborers to the USA or Hawaii in about the 1870's. Some of these people show up in California by 1890. By the time their grandchildren start appearing (1940), some of them are participating in the economy as business owners.

In Feb. 1943, FDR wrote an executive order which incarcerated people of Japanese ancestry for being in the Western US. This order, Exec. Order 9066 was followed by military orders from a General DeWitt which created prison camps for americans of Japanese ancestry. Over 160,000 people were incarcerated, more than half were women and children. Some in fact were orphans (these children were taken from orphanages and then classified as enemies of the state then put behind the barbed wire in the prison camps).

These prison camps were very harsh, surrounded by barbed wire, had watch towers, and focused machine guns on women/children/etc.

Basically, these are the "Jap camps" that Senator Simpson refers to. He actually was a kid in Wyoming and a Boy Scout. He actually tells a story of visiting Norman Mineta who was incarcerated in Heart Mountain. Apparently, the Wyoming Boy Scouts wanted to build some kind of positive experience for the boys who were stuck in the prison camp and actually did a sleep in. Mineta apparently remembers the evening to this day (60 years later!).

Here's a map of one of ten camps.

Alien Land Laws prevented Japanese people from owning their own land because land ownership required US citizenship. Some of these laws remain in effect TODAY in New Mexico and Florida. Please see http://www.asianweek.com/2001_02_16/news1_alienlandlaws.html

The Japanese were specifically precluded from US citizenship until Eisenhower's first term (when Nixon got the Walter-McCarran Act passed through Congress). In fact, many of the immigrants did not get citizenship until Ike's second term.

The right of the US military to forcibly remove people of particular ethnicity existed until President Gerald Ford overturned FDR's Exec. Order 9066 in 1975.

Going back to the start, it turns out that the Meiji Restoration occurred at about the same time as the first Japanese began arriving in California. I think the losers in the Japanese civil battles were the families who immigrated to the US.

In the 1860-1870 time frame, there was a North-South civil war in Japan. I'm not certain what prompted the war, but it looks to me like the Northern japanese sent an army into the Southern farms, wrecked the southern Japanese economy, killed the southern army, and basically installed the emperor of Japan as a supreme authority.

One interesting thought process is conjured by Newt's new book, Gettysburg. What would have happened in world affairs had the southerners won in both the US and Japan?

The US and Japanese had really good relations at the turn of the century. The US basically built the Japanese navy which tossed Russia out of Manchuria. I uncovered this story by hitting the US Library of Congress web site. You can even see a ship called the "Chitose" sailing out of San Francisco Bay.

There is a pretty complete on-line history document at http://www.nps.gov/manz/hrs/hrst.htm My research appears to collaborate the GOP/Republican control of the Hawaiian islands beginning in the 1860's to 1890's. Basically, every time the GOP controlled 1600 Penn. Ave., American control over Hawaii increased. This leveraged the "missionaries" who came to control large parcels of native Hawaiian land. This control translated to the creation of large plantations which required large numbers of workers. Those workers were initially from China, Japan, and the Phillippines. The Japanese workers came from the only part of Japan with continuing contact with "gaijin". This was primarily Nagasaki and the surrounding towns in Kyushu. By the time Perry opened Tokyo 150 years ago, Hawaii was getting approached by the Russians, Japanese, and Americans. Everyone knew it was a leveraging point and there were even skirmishes between the US and Japan in Pearl Harbor/Oahu waters in the mid 1800's. Because GOP leadership has always favored "peace through strength", the GOP Presidents in the 1860's opened immigration doors to asia. This helped the railroaders in california (Stanford et al) and helped the plantation/shippers in Hawaii (Baldwin/Alexander/etc.). The california people shipped in Chinese workers...which stopped due to anti-chinese backlash in the mid-1880's.

[Mamzelle]

Given your chronic giddiness, all is hilarious, even the Japanese refusal to help take care of the Korean/Japanese orphans of the "comfort women." Laff it up.

[gaijin]

I know alllll about the internment camps, and have even been to Zanzabar, June Lake, etc. It was something that shouldn't have happened; the compensation that some finally received was paltry recompense for their suffering.

You also rightly mention Alien Land Laws still being on the books in New Mexico and Florida. Are you also saying that there are prominent recent cases of these being enforced?

For example, to this day in the state of Nevada, you are entitled to personally hang the man who kills your dog. And in San Francisco, of all places, fellatio is ILLEGAL. Arcane legal relics abound.

Let me mention that I was able to rent my first apparment in Japan because "Hostesses, pets and foreigners are OK!" --and that's how it was advertised.

[bonesmccoy]

Compare and contrast Mamzelle's comment that "there are few more insular (a nice nuanced word for racist) cultures than the Japanese" to the existing Israeli policies regarding Palestinians.

Discuss.

Talk amongst yer' selves.

(sarcasm off)

[bonesmccoy]

You mention "Zanzabar, June Lake, etc." To what are you referring?

Are you confused with Manzanar, Tule Lake, Gila River, and the other prison camps/detention centers?

About the Alien Land Laws, I am not versed in the existing enforcement actions. However, if the state does not enforce the law, the law should be revoked.

The sign you mentioned was pretty funny. Where did you live in Japan? Roppongi or Shinjuku?

[AmericanInTokyo]

PRESIDENT REAGAN recognized the failure of the United States to have done that to it's own citizens. I have been to the camps And in the past I have talked with 8-10 old men who were in there; I think most are passed on now. To a man, they said it was not very fun, they felt robbed, but it was in their culture to put up with it, and shut up, and not make waves. Their silence was somehow misinterpreted as indicative that "it was not that bad". In reality, each of them gravely detested it and were highly resentful that the 442nd boys were dying in Italy and Germany at the exact same time their families back home were pledging allegiance to the flag were behind barbed wire and machine gun nests. A terrible chapter in America's history.

I side with PRESIDENT REAGAN.

[AmericanInTokyo]

THE 10 NORTH KOREANS AT THE JAPANESE EMBASSY IN THAILAND TODAY REVEALED THEIR WISHES: TO BE GRANTED POLITICAL ASYLUM FROM NORTH KOREA BY THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO LIVE IN AMERICA.

THEY CHOSE THE JAPANESE EMBASSY NOT BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO GO TO JAPAN BUT BECAUSE THE JAPAN EMBASSY IN THAILAND HAD LESS SECURITY THAN THE US EMBASSY OVER ON WIRELESS ROAD. (PER JAPANESE NEWS SOURCES THIS MORNING)

[AmericanInTokyo]

ping!

[AmericanInTokyo]

ping.

[Mamzelle]

Gee, do we also have some very nuanced antisemitism coming to the front here? Maybe that'd explain what the Middle East has to do with NK refugees, at least in the mind of Bones.

So, have at it--lets have the real McCoy.

[Mamzelle]

Well, just let them cool their heels in Japan for a few years while we work out the paperwork. Sheesh. Can't even handle a handful of refugees--what incredible, selfish, childish racists!!

I don't see why the US should lift a little finger right now--let the Japanese authorities show to the world their pathologies...