One in 10 U.S. Tech Jobs May Move Overseas, Report Says

Reuters ^ | July 29, 2003 | Eric Auchard

[sten]

In that short term that may be very true, but those companies are not going to last by employing such stupid strategies (and people). The market will reward those companies that make the right choices, business cannot afford to hire unskilled workers.

Actually, the businesses can survive fine with that strategy and they know it. Large corporations can sustain the incompetence due to their market share. Small to medium sized companies cannot. Therefore, the smaller companies, unable to utilize the cheap labor, are competing with the more expensive labor and won't survive. This exact same model was used to defeat most small/medium sized companies in the retail sector. Larger companies with cheaper/inferior products are able to easily defeat the local retailers.

As you see, competence or quality do not factor into the fight. Pre-existing market share and budget capacity determines who will survive. Why was there a backlash against the "Buy American" movement that started after 9/11? Because that is the only thing that can defeat the large corporations.

[just_living]

Good point. Very good point.

Actually, the businesses can survive fine with that strategy and they know it. Large corporations can sustain the incompetence due to their market share. Small to medium sized companies cannot. Therefore, the smaller companies, unable to utilize the cheap labor, are competing with the more expensive labor and won't survive. This exact same model was used to defeat most small/medium sized companies in the retail sector. Larger companies with cheaper/inferior products are able to easily defeat the local retailers. As you see, competence or quality do not factor into the fight. Pre-existing market share and budget capacity determines who will survive. Why was there a backlash against the "Buy American" movement that started after 9/11? Because that is the only thing that can defeat the large corporations.

[Beck_isright]

E

xcuseeeeee me. I made a typo. At least I understand the 80/20 rule. Owning your own business opens your eyes. Watching the 80% just validates my opinion. I notice you dared not challenge the concept of changing the tax structure so companies are rewarded and not punished for being profitable. RINOits is running rampant at FR.

[just_living]

I notice you dared not challenge the concept of changing the tax structure

Dared not? That’s a bit of hyperbole. I did not address that because you said you want high tariffs, which to me is government regulation and protectionism, which, as strong and smart citizens of the world I don’t think we need. I don’t want any government telling me I’m too weak to compete without their unfair help. I like to win because of survival of the fittest, not because of friends in high places. The tax code needs to be revamped, reworked, thrown out and more, and on that I will never waiver.

[jpl]

If Americans have priced themselves out of the market, they deserve to be punished by the market.

This is exactly the kind of know-nothing Republicanism that lost us the White House in '92 and is going to cost us dearly in '04 if we're stupid enough to go down this road again.

[sten]

I am all for an even playing field. But in order to do that, the government will have to adjust tariffs on imported goods and SERVICES produced by offshore projects and imported foreign labor. So long as the goods brought in are tarrifed to account for the taxes, educational costs, and the standard of living within the US, I would have no problem.

Of course, that will never happen, the corporate lobbists will see to it.

• Congressmen Inslee (D-WA) reassures foreigners they will have jobs within the US

[sten]

There are plenty of unemployed IT workers in the US. Don't try to say they are offshoring to find the talent. It's about saving money.

• IBM accelerates offshore outsourcing

[Beck_isright]

For over 150 years, we relied on tariffs to finance this monster known as the Federal Government. The minute the socialist FDR and his cronies turned inwards and started punishing producers within this nation we started to slide. What you are advocating is the same kind of gloablist nonsense that Truman, FDR, and LBJ along with Bush Sr. and Klintoon believed in. You are in great company. And your kind of thinking is one of the reasons the GOP may not get a 2nd term in the White House in 04, or worse, a real socialist, Hitlery, will get elected in 2008. You can not have unfair trade. We have that now and have financed our own destruction. You are too narrow minded in your thinking. This problem will end up destroying what is left of our nation.

[hedgetrimmer]

Doesn't "jobless recovery" seem like an oxymoron?

[The Green Goblin]

Stop waiting for other's to fix it. Let's get together and start a new industry.

Ok, let's do that. You go first since you seem to be more informed about this than I am. What kind of new industry do you propose we start?

[hedgetrimmer]

"What most of us care about is the ability to think, create, and enjoy. The new economy makes that better, easier, and smoother for more people than ever. Say goodbye to the tarriffs from the tolltakers of corporate America. We won't miss them."

John Robb
Wed, May 29, 2002
John Robb is the president UserLand Software

Well, looks like he got what _he_ wanted.

[just_living]

Stop waiting for other's to fix it. Let's get together and start a new industry.
Ok, let's do that. You go first since you seem to be more informed about this than I am. What kind of new industry do you propose we start?

I was thinking of a collaboration, people working together. Us working together, not one person thinking up an industry. That was the part about "let's get together"

[harpseal]

Good for business owners. If Americans have priced themselves out of the market, they deserve to be punished by the market.

So you favor government interfer3nce with the free market to harm computer programmers.

We need to get better or different skills that blow away our competition, or lower our prices.

Those skills are already in the USA and if we had no currency controls in India and a lack of governbment support for the offshoring we would not have this probvlem which started with a government policy to interfere in teh free market.

I am all for the market deciding what is right. And in this case our overfeed programmers are going to have to figure out how to make themselves attractive to our top corporations once again.

This last sentence alone shows you to be be either ignorant of this issue or merely another hard core anti-American who merely wants to see some Americans suffer.

[harpseal]

What company pays with bowls of rice?

Quite a few in China especially those that utilize political prisoners.

[dljordan]

Overfed programmers is it? Lets see, where I work the average salary is $60,000 - $70,000. The average work week is 50-60 hours not counting 24 hour on-call duty and frequent 24 hour work sessions. 50 weeks X 40 = 2000 hrs. $65000 / 2000 =$32.50. Thats a normal week. Now we figure it with 55 hrs. 50 wks. x 55 hrs. = 2750 hrs. $65000 / 2750 = $23 per hr. Now divide that in half for Fed, state and local taxes and you have the princely sum of $11.50 per hr.Yeah, those nasty, worthless, lazy programmers deserve everything they get.

[just_living]

So you favor government interfer3nce with the free market to harm computer programmers.

Not really sure how you made that leap. I favor no government interfer3nce, no help, no harm. The harm, the punishment as I said, comes from a market that either doesn't value your skills, or has come to value them at less then you think they are worth.

When did a free market become taboo?

[sten]

Just ignore this guy. He doesn't address any of the points and just baits people. He is a corporate shrill and a classic troll.

** TROLL ALERT : just_living **

[sten]

sheesh.. usually this is posted sooner...

just_living : Since Jul 30, 2003

[just_living]

I am trying to address every point. And not doing a half bad job. I am not "baiting" so much as encouraging debate and trying to help us all think through our beliefs, and iron out contradictions.

[harpseal]

A free market has nothing to do with trade policies and you were supporting the results of an interference in the normal free market process specifically the introduction of guest workers directly hampering what is actually a vital industry for our national defense, IT. Now since you cheered the use of a short circuit arround the Free Market and are viewing the harm that is occuring to American IT workers as a positive development onne must clearly infer your objection is to a free market within the USA and since you view the current trade envirornment as inherently beneficial even though it clearly and obvviously is harming the USA it follows from your positions.

I have a particular aversion to letting people who are opposed to a Capitalist economy in teh USA get away with praising harming the USA call me old fashioned but I am an American.