'Ignore the US H1B ban threat'

Economic Times of India ^ | July 30, 2003

[Paul C. Jesup]

Just remember, for every HB1 worker, there could have been one U.S. worker who could have been paying income taxes to government.

[harpseal]

I think the title says it all in the reason for the ping.

[Question_Assumptions]

I'm not sure that they should cancel the existing H1B and L1 visas but they sure as heck should stop issuing them. The argument about a "shortage of IT workers" may have made some sense in the late 1990s but it simply does not make sense now.

Note that Indians and Chinese are not the only people on H1B visas. A Hungarian at my last job had one, as do other Europeans. A few of the H1B people I've worked with are actually the sort of immigrants I'd like to see and most have taken the trouble to get their green cards. I don't really want to toss the people who are here legally out of the country, but I do think that we don't need any more.

[dfwgator]

The argument about a "shortage of IT workers"

It's not that there is a shortage of IT workers. It is a shortage of IT workers that are willing to work for peanuts.

[Question_Assumptions]

H1B visa workers do pay taxes, too. I think it is more fair to say that for every H1B worker, an out of work American IT worker might not be collecting unemployement.

[stylin19a]

It was Indian professionals who helped the US enjoy the power of the Internet and IT

Is this true ? IBM is an Indian Company ? The Arparnet was developed by Indians ? Bill Gates is an Indian ? WWW & Mosaic was developed in India?

Well then, this surely must be true:...The US is a democracy

Ok..ok wait......then THIS must be true:...The Bill seems flawed, because when you don?t have the right skills within your country, you look overseas,?

</sarcasm off>

[TopDog2]

Much as I hate to pump up a government bureaucracy, the INS should beef up its staff so that they can go through the resumes received for each job that a company requests an H1B worker to make sure that no US citizen was qualified for the position. The rules should also require that H1B's be paid double (not the agency, the individual)the prevailing wages for the position.

[stylin19a]

Actually, that's one of the H1B requirements...that a US worker is not being replaced.

The H1B provision will slowly go away. Allotments are being reduced each year.
We close the front door, but leave the back door wide open via L1 visas. It's the L1's that are the dagger in the heart.

[Question_Assumptions]

It's not that there is a shortage of IT workers. It is a shortage of IT workers that are willing to work for peanuts.

Yes, but I suspect that many IT workers would accept less these days, especially if their unemployment is running out. I know that I've taken about a substantial pay cut to take a new job and my previous salary was not at the high-end of things for this area. So have many others. Despite the fact that I was a beneficiary of high IT wages, they really were insane (recent college grads for $80K?) and needed correction, especially for the people who were never very good. The problem right now is that employers have so many resumes that all look the same on paper that it is difficult to filter out the good people from those who were hired because they could spell "computer".

[TopDog2]

Yes, it is one of the requirements. Not enforced, but it is a requirement. With enough staff to enforce the law, we might not read about US citizens forced to train H1B workers to take over their jobs.

[RKV]

It is in the best interests of employers to get low wage labor, and Indian programmers in the US do get less than locals. That is my personal experience as an IT manager. US workers are being replaced for cost reasons, irrespective of what the employers are saying.

[Snuffington]

A few of the H1B people I've worked with are actually the sort of immigrants I'd like to see and most have taken the trouble to get their green cards.

With the economic downturn, green card approval is extremely difficult anymore. And I have mixed feelings about it in any case.

Like you, I have met wonderful visa holders who would make model citizens and truly want to immigrate to the U. S. for good. As far as I'm concerned, they're welcome to come and to stay.

I have also met good people who prefer to stay loyal to their country, but would rather work in the U. S. because the money is better. They have no intention of ever becoming U. S. citizens, but they still want green cards. It's this latter group I have reservations about.

[Tokhtamish]

This sounds like whistling in the dark.

[DUMBGRUNT]

And India is not helping us with troops in Iraq?

[Paul C. Jesup]

Do you honestly think H1B visa workers pay more U.S. Taxes than U.S. workers.

[Question_Assumptions]

Do you honestly think H1B visa workers pay more U.S. Taxes than U.S. workers.

That all depends on a great many variables. In practice, H1B visa holders make less so pay less in taxes. But if they were hiring out of work American IT people, there is no guarantee that they still wouldn't be paying less. A lot of IT people are taking lower paying jobs just to get work. My point is simply that the real gripe is that H1B visa holders are preventing unemployed American IT workers from finding jobs and that the drain caused by out of work IT workers collecting unemployment is a bigger concern that any disparity between taxes paid. I'm sure the thousands of dollars spent to pay unemployment for an out of work IT worker are a bigger problem than the lost tax revenue.

[Question_Assumptions]

I have also met good people who prefer to stay loyal to their country, but would rather work in the U. S. because the money is better. They have no intention of ever becoming U. S. citizens, but they still want green cards. It's this latter group I have reservations about.

Agreed. Though it is also my experience that some of those who plan to go back eventually don't, once they've been in the US long enough.

[dfwgator]

Yes, but I suspect that many IT workers would accept less these days, especially if their unemployment is running out.

Of course they would, but the way the hiring company sees it, they'll bolt at the first decent offer they get.

[Question_Assumptions]

Of course they would, but the way the hiring company sees it, they'll bolt at the first decent offer they get.

Not right now but eventually, yes. Good point. I forgot about the "slave labor" aspect to H1B visas. They've got 10 days to leave the country if they lose their job.