The real hero behind the 'bravery' of Private Jessica

The Daily Telegraph ^ | 27/07/2003 | Julian Coman

[CWOJackson]

Include a little history with those photos. The Gold and Silver Lifesaving Medals, cast in solid gold and silver.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Eligibility Requirements

The Gold Lifesaving Medal or the Silver Lifesaving Medal is awarded by the Commandant, U.S. Coast Guard, to any person who rescues or endeavors to rescue any other person from drowning, shipwreck, or other perils of the water. If such rescue is made at the risk of one’s own life, and evidences extreme and heroic daring, the medal is GOLD. If such rescue or attempted rescue is not sufficiently distinguished to deserve the medal of gold, but evidences such extraordinary effort as to merit recognition, the medal shall be SILVER. The rescue or attempted rescue must either take place in waters within the United States or subject to the jurisdiction thereof, or one or the other parties must be a citizen of the United States or from a vessel or aircraft owned or operated by citizens of the United States. If, in the opinion of the Commandant, neither the Gold or Silver Lifesaving Medal is appropriate, then an appropriate Coast Guard Public Service Award will be considered.

Military personnel serving on active duty normally should not be recommended for the Gold and Silver Lifesaving Medals. However, personnel may be recommended for a Lifesaving Medal if the act of heroism was performed while the member was in a leave or liberty status. Otherwise, a military award should be considered.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

A gold medal was awarded to Mrs. Ida Lewis-Wilson who won a national celebrity for her many rescues under her maiden name, Ida Lewis. The papers accompanying the application made in her case to the Department showed that she saved thirteen persons from drowning and it is understood that the number was probably much greater. The special incident upon which Ida Lewis earned the medal was her rescue on 4 February 1881. At 5 o’clock two soldiers belonging to the garrison of Fort Adams near Newport, RI were crossing on foot between the fort and Lime Rock lighthouse of which Mrs. Lewis-Wilson was the keeper. They suddenly fell through the ice that had become weak. Hearing their drowning cries, Mrs. Lewis-Wilson ran toward them from the lighthouse with a rope. In imminent danger of the soft and brittle ice giving way beneath her, and also of being dragged into the hole by the men, she succeeded in hauling first one, and then the other, out of the water. The first man she got out entirely unaided; her brother arrived and helped her with the second.

The action on her part showed unquestionable nerve, presence of mind, and dashing courage. The ice was in a very dangerous condition and only a short time afterward, two men fell through the ice and drowned, while crossing during the night. All the witnesses certified that the rescue was accomplished at the imminent risk of the Mrs. Lewis-Wilson’s life.

Gold Life-Saving Medal Awardees

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

One last post before I call it a night - if anyone missed it and is interested, this is Jim Pinkerton's take on it all.

[scan58]

I found 3 that appear the same in value. DOD-Distinguished Service, Meritorious Service and Commendable Service all show a price of $90 each.
Though not offered to civilians, the Navy/Marine Distinguised Service Medal showed a price of $99.50 while the same for the Air Force showed $83.00.
Do I win a prize?

[scan58]

Oh well, forget it. I'm so slow.

[Publius6961]

I suspect the Brit Twits are deliberately trying to toss a hand grenade into the American consciousness about the war, and promote dissent and encourage whining.
Anything to deteriorate the unity of purpose evident so far.

I for one, refuse to play their stupid game.
Yes, I have opinions, but I am not a puppet of Limey communist losers.

[scan58]

I thought about this very fact yesterday and followed this thread and even posted and never really mentioned the source of the article. I don't think anyone else did, either.
Good call.

[OldCorps]

Are you by chance a personnel guy? what was your MOS (if that's the correct term for WOs.

[OldCorps]

"Therein is my gripe. You don't give folks Achivement Medals for actions performed in a combat zone or relating to conduct as a POW.

And the Bronze Star has been far too widely awarded during and since Vietnam."

You seem to contradict yourself her. Are you not advocating that PFC Lynch deserves a BSM? And then you go and write the above? When in fact, she just happened to be involved in an accident and by all accounts did not even pick up a weapon and fight?

If she deserves a BSM, then so does every 11B and tanker out there dodging bullets. They are the real heros afterall. Or don't you agree?

[CWOJackson]

1) Yes, Private Lynch deserves the Bronze Star for her conduct as a POW.

2) The Army was giving Bronze Stars out very liberally in Nam, atleast during my two tours as an 11-D and it continues through today. And the Army isn't the only service. If you look at some of the informational posts on this thread you will see both statistics and examples. I have little doubt that Private Lynch's conduct as POW mets both the letter and spirit of the Bronze Star but I would like to know the justification used for giving the Bronze Star to an Airman (E-2 or E-3) at Wright/Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio for the Iraqi conflict.

3) Sorry they didn't give you a Bronze Star for having a wreck...get over it.

[CWOJackson]

Excellent job...and these medals are literally worth their weight in gold and silver.

[an amused spectator]

Interesting article, but I searched for a post questioning who Julian Coman of the Telegraph is, and what his agenda is, and couldn't find any.

I know the Telegraph is a conservative-leaning rag, but I have my doubts about Mr. Coman.

He might be part of the "Spit On The Troops, 2003" campaign.

[OldCorps]

") Yes, Private Lynch deserves the Bronze Star for her conduct as a POW."

So your position is that for being hospitalized by the Iraqis she deserves the BSM? What did she do while being hospitalized that merits the award? Do you know if enlisted POWs of the North Vietnamese were awarded BSMs? They went through a lot worse.

"The Army was giving Bronze Stars out very liberally in Nam, atleast during my two tours as an 11-D and it continues through today"

Liberally yes, but the general rule for enlisted men was for heroism. Again, very few enlisted 11Bs who spent time on patrol were awarded the BSM. Thus an enlisted man wearing a BSM from Vietnam, (or Iraq for that matter) usually deserved the award.

"3) Sorry they didn't give you a Bronze Star for having a wreck...get over it."

Why the personal attack? I'm only asking you to explain your position.

And you never answered my question about what is your specialty in the Army? Not that you have to, but an answer would be appreciated.

[CWOJackson]

I don't know exactly what specifics were used for her award because I haven't seen the citation to accompany the award. Her experience as a POW was unique from most of the other Iraq POWs and even most Nam POWs; she was gravely injured for which she is still in almost constant pain, isolated from all other POWs who provided mutual support to each other however limited and according to hospital staff, tortured but always maintained that she was an American soldier.

I don't know of any American POW from Vietnam who didn't receive at least the Bronze Star but I'm pretty sure most received far higher...but I wouldn't compare what they went through with her period of captivity or the gender difference.

The general rule for the Bronze Star is not heroism, that is why the "V for Valor" device distinquishes when the aware is for heroism or not. For instance, the E-2 or E-3 who received it in Ohio, along with a hell of a lot of other Air Force personnel stateside, should not receive the "V" device.

The whole controvery around Admiral Boorda's Bronze Star, which he and a whole lot of other officers on his ship had received for sailing off the coast of Nam was whether he was entitled to the "V" device or not.

And as I have already told you once, and for the third time on this thread, my MOS in the Army was 11-D...and during two tours in Nam I saw the Bronze Star and Vietnam Cross of Gallantry given out to many, many grunts.

[OldCorps]

"And as I have already told you once, and for the third time on this thread, my MOS in the Army was 11-D..."

I assumed you were a warrant officer (a rank given to technical specialists in a given field for those who don't know) because you go by the freep name of CWO... So what has me perplexed is that there are no infanty (MOS 11) warrant officers. Does the CWO refer to something else beside military rank?

"The whole controvery around Admiral Boorda's Bronze Star, which he and a whole lot of other officers on his ship had received for sailing off the coast of Nam was whether he was entitled to the "V" device or not."

There was no controversy over Admiral Boorda's Bronze Star! The controversy was over V devices for Navy Commendation and Acheivement Medals. See this site:

http://serbiandefenseleague.com/boorda2.htm

"and during two tours in Nam I saw the Bronze Star and Vietnam Cross of Gallantry given out to many, many grunts."

That does not correspond to my experience. I served in TO&E infantry units from 80-88. Not a single enlisted Vietnam vet (during the early 80's this equated to about E-7) had been awarded a BSM for valor or merit. NOt a single one, out of some 50 whose records I was directly familiar with. However, one E-6 squad leader did have a Silver Star. Even my first company commander, a prior enlisted Vietnam vet from the 25th ID, did not have a BSM.

You might think PFC Lynch deserves the BSM. That is your right, but you have yet to show me any reason she merited the award. I think the Army gave the medal to her out of political expediency. Not an unprecedented occurance.

[CWOJackson]

It's very simple, I left the Army many, many years ago and ceased to be an 11-D; that is when and where I earned my first two Bronze Stars along with a hell of alot of other GIs I knew.

I then entered another service where many units are commanded by Chief Warrant Officers, where warrants are commissioned (not warranted), and where warrant is in the rank pyramid for all specialties not just technical.

Regarding your persistent doubts concerning Private Lynch's deserved award I can understand now why you have such sour grapes...barracks lawyers seldom earn that level of recognition.

[OldCorps]

"Regarding your persistent doubts concerning Private Lynch's deserved award I can understand now why you have such sour grapes...barracks lawyers seldom earn that level of recognition."

So, i'm a barracks lawyer because i disagree with you. Sorry to disturb you clown, but i'm a retired field grade infantry officer who happens to know a lot more about the Army than you.

You were wrong about Boorda's Navy commendation medal controversy, falsely claiming the dispute was over a Bronze Star.

Get your facts straight. You're entitled to your opinion, I have mine. But I can do without your petty insults. If you want to meet, I live in Ga. I'd be very happy to kick your ass.

[CWOJackson]

You would probably be very happy to be able to hold a cup of coffee steady without spilling any but like your desire to kick ass as you say, probably won't happen in your life time.

A retired field grade infantry officer and never a Bronze Star...and a lousy Staff Sergeant got two. You sure didn't have much luck at all. No wonder you're upset that some young female soldier got the Bronze Star that she deserved.

As for Admiral Boorda, you might want to check your facts a little more closely. It was that other retired Army field officer...Hackworth...who was doing a hit piece on Boorda regarding the "V" for valor on his Bronze Star; right after that it was discovered that the Hack was also wearing a device he wasn't entitled to.

One of the biggest problems we had in the Army during those days was the field officers...you remind me why now.

[OldCorps]

yea, I met many types like you in the army in my time. Loud, obnoxious, abrasive, to cover their ignorance and incompetence. guess that's why you had to leave the army for the air farce, where losers like you are accepted. how much overweight were you? Did you get a dwi or something?

hey maybe you earned your BSMs, assuming you are who you say you are. But even that is questionable, since you got your wires crossed on the Boorda suicide and can't even admit it. then you go telling us that, hey, everyone in Vietnam got Bronze Stars, which anyone who served a day in the army knows is pure BS.

It must be tough knowing that the army didn't want you. How can you deal with the rejection?