This evangelist has a 'Purpose'(Rick Warren easy belivism alert)

USA Today ^ | July 21, 2003 | By Cathy Lynn Grossman,

[Colofornian]

Jesus ate with sinners... He gave his message to all.

You miss the key point. Jesus didn't eat w/sinners & then turn around and say, "Why nitpick about non-essentials like whether the Sadducees believe in the resurrection or not?"

[tutstar]

Any biblical teaching that makes the NYT best sellers list of 23 make me wonder what people are really getting out of it.

LOL if Christians went out and voted in the same force as it appears they are buying this book we wouldn't have been stuck with Bubba for 8 yrs.

May be there isn't really anything suspicious about it. Bruce Wilkerson's (Prayer of Jabez, Secrets of the Vine)books have sold in the millions as well.

[bcoffey]

You miss my point entirely. I guess I have been too subtle, so I'll try one last time then head to another thread.

My point is that since doctrine changes over time, it is not Doctrine (to use your words). Doctrine is something we seek, and in this human life that seeking will always be imperfect, hence my "merely" comment about "doctrine."

It is very important to keep our human fallability in mind lest we become so smug in our self-righteousness that we are always trying to do God a favor.

OK.. I've had my say. Enjoy your evening.

[Colofornian]

Jude 3: "the faith {body of beliefs} once AND FOR ALL delivered to the saints."

[tutstar]

In Mark when the Pharisees got on Jesus' case for eating with sinners, afterward it says they were picking on him for 'not keeping the Sabbath' because He and disciples were picking corn.

Matt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

They also didn't know of the resurrection yet.It had not happened.

[tutstar]

My point is that since doctrine changes over time

Man's doctrine may change but God's doesn't, are you talking about 2 separate doctrines?

[sruleoflaw]

YOU NEED TO STUDY HISTORY. It was Christians who helped
end slavery; people like William Wilburforce. Wow, are you out of touch!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guyin4Os]

Mormons? Jews? Why not Muslims too? When you start including the cults and false or incomplete religions, you are the way to compromise...and that is not pleasing to our Lord.

Warren does not tolerate heretical teachings in his church. Nor does he legitimize cultists at his pastor-training seminars. But neither does he have an inquisitor at the door performing doctrine-checks on every seminar participant.... so lighten up on the man.

[The Grammarian]

I'm more concerned that he doesn't discriminate between a Methodist and a Catholic, a Mormon, or a Jew.

[billbears]

Warren is part of the ultra-conservative Southern Baptist Convention, and all his senior staff sign on to the SBC's doctrines, such as the literal and infallible Bible and exclusion of women as senior pastors. Yet Warren's pastor-training programs welcome Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Jews and ordained women.

No part of the SBC I've ever heard of. Of course after reading this I'm thinking the CA version of the SBC is a bit different from the NC version of the SBC. And I've never heard of this dude. And please no one flame me or get upset but how exactly are you supposed to teach Mormons and Jews to be pastors from a Christian perspective if they don't believe in Christ as the One True Son of God?

[Colofornian]

They also didn't know of the resurrection yet.It had not happened.

Not true. The Pharisees believed in a resurrection; the Sadducees did not. See Luke 20:27; Mark 12:18; Mt 22:23.

Matt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

End of Mt. 23:23: "You should have practiced the latter, WITHOUT NEGLECTING THE FORMER." Jesus didn't say what the Pharisees did was all wrong; they suffered from half-truths. Compromisers tend to get imbalanced. Mt 23:23 also says the Pharisees were imbalanced.

[bcoffey]

You wrote: "Wow, are you out of touch!!!!!!!!!!!"

I sincerely doubt I am as 'out of touch' as your conclusion implies, but there again you don't know me or anything about my background.

Please go back and re-read what I actually wrote in the context within which I wrote it.

Then, consider the following 18th and 19th century examples:

• In the eighteenth century, defenders of slavery among men of the cloth were far more numerous than opponents. "For every John Wesley who was critical, there were several George Whitefields who considered slavery a blessing" - Forrest G. Wood, "The Arrogance of Faith: Christianity and Race in America from the Colonial Era to the Twentieth Century," New York: Knopf, 1990, p. 292.
• In 1822, Richard Furman, then president of the Baptist State Convention (SC), wrote a letter to the governor expressing the proslavery sentiments of South Carolina Baptists:
  "... the right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example..."
  "...Had the holding of slaves been a moral evil, it cannot be supposed that the inspired Apostles, who feared not the faces of men, and were ready to lay down their lives in the cause of their God, would have tolerated it for a moment in the Christian Church. Or if they had done so on a principle of accommodation, in cases where the masters remained heathen, to avoid offences and civil commotion; yet, surely, when both master and servant were Christian ... they would have ... required, that the master should liberate his slave... But, instead of this, they let the relationship remain untouched, as being lawful and right, and insist on relative duties.
  "In proving this subject justifiable by Scriptural authority, its morality is also proved; for the Divine Law never sanctions immoral actions."

Whitefield and Furman were obviously wrong, but among Christians of their day, they were in the majority.

My point again is that what we believe changes. What church denominations believe changes as well. The fact that Christians alleviated some of the problems they once accepted only enforces my point.

Enjoy your evening.

[Colofornian]

My point again is that what we believe changes.

There are essentials and non-essential doctrines of the faith. What essentials have been altered thru the centuries?

[bcoffey]

You wrote: "There are essentials and non-essential doctrines of the faith. What essentials have been altered thru the centuries?"

I don't think this was ever part of my argument.

After all, one might argue that anything that has changed must by definition have been "non-essential." Would that be your position?

[Colofornian]

Doctrine is something we seek...I think we have to remember that "doctrine" is merely what we think we believe about God

While I don't strongly contend w/anything you've said thus far, the above statements are examples that you tend to emphasize only the human side of understanding God.

Of course, there are diverse doctrinal applications-- in mainstream denominations, newer denominations, neo-Christian movements, and cults. But doctrine goes beyond what we seek...it is also what God reveals. Doctrine is not simply wrapped up only with our insights; nor can it be reduced to " merely what we think we believe about God."

Doctrine is also what God thinks about himself...for to conclude there are not some obvious eternal, immutable doctrines & to place it all only in the human realm is to degrade the Holy Spirit as a vital communicator.

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (Acts 17:11)

There ya have it. There was some ability for the Bereans to check to see if a message/doctrine was on-target or off-base based upon the standards within the Old Testament. Otherwise, Acts 17:11 would read: "Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness because it matched what they thought they believed about God."

[CyberAnt]

Absolutely! You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[Euro-American Scum]

I highly reccommend "The Purpose Driven Life". He wants to attract a crowd to God, not himself.

I don't knwo about The Purpose Driven Life. But I do know Rick Warren. And it's all about him.

[Euro-American Scum]

Warren's latest book, best seller The Purpose-Driven Life: What on Earth Am I Here For?, outsold Billy Graham's autobiography — 4.5 million copies sold so far. (Related item: Video of a Rick Warren service.)

President Bush and his wife, Laura, and advisers such as Karl Rove and Karen Hughes have read it. So have the chaplain for NASCAR, LPGA golfers and enough book shoppers to propel it to 23 weeks on The New York Times' advice best-seller list, several as No.1, and months on USA TODAY's Best Selling Books list.

Sounds like a Tony Robbins infomercial.

[CyberAnt]

Geeeee .. did you ever consider GOD had a purpose for those people of those denominations to take those courses so GOD could coax them closer to HIM and away from their cult ..??

[CyberAnt]

Please read #39 - and if those religions disagree so much, why would they attend anyway.