Men Behaving Badly - Why?

MND ^ | July 15, 2003 | Karl Glasson, Ph.D.

[BudgieRamone]

I prefer to sit back and watch or simply just walk away without a word...Radical feminists can't argue with your back..:)

I recall a time in college when I made the effort to hold the door for a young lady...out of politeness and she gave me the "I don't need a man to hold the door for me" routine, so I walked off as she continued her tirade and the door slammed on her (the closing mechanism was broken so it slammed shut)..guess who got yelled at for being rude?
I tell you, guys its a can't win situation.

Real men are there they are just sitting back and watching, waiting and biding their time. One day this will all come crashing down. Then the real men will be able to step up to the plate with confidence and all the stupid femi-nonsense will be tossed in the dung heap of history.

[Nick Danger]

If men won't vote their interests...

They can't, because no one will represent their interests. Part of what happens when a society becomes "feminized" is that it moves back toward what I call Monkey Rules. Under monkey rules, there is a small cadre of alpha males, but all the rest of the males are so much baggage to the troop except for their ability to hoot and holler at rival troops or to forage for food. Monkey rules were in effect for a very long time. The idea of "nations of free men, all created equal" really arrived only with firearms and the Magna Carta. It's a relatively recent development.

The "Alpha Males" in Congress and so on do not represent "men." They represent themselves first, and their harem second. They do what alpha male monkeys do: they use state power to extract resources from the other males, and shovel those resources into their own pockets and to the females. This is a good deal for the females, so they vote for more of it. Every time you hear about another government program for assisting with "child care" or "subsidizing motherhood," you are watching alpha male monkeys making their females more dependent on them. The women cheering this on see the state as a more reliable (He's immortal, swoon) provider than those ordinary male monkeys.

You can't knock this system for effectiveness... it worked for a very long time. It still works in the jungle, and among monkeys. It never really went away.

What makes it possible to bring it back now is that we are a long way from the Magna Carta and the days when a few hundred armed men could persuade the King that maybe we oughta make things more equal around here. The King-with-overwhelming-force is back, and so are his nobles, and soon so will be the serfs.

The problem the King is going to have is that we don't live in the trees anymore. Kings today need airplane mechanics and truck drivers and sewage-treatment engineers. You can't really put a gun to someone's head and make them do a good job at that. They have to care, or you end up like the Soviet Union did where the planes crash, the ships sink, and the buildings fall over. Monkey rules won't work in a technological society. Forty years after Helen Reddy roared, men are still doing 95% of the work that keeps the technological trains running. If the space aliens were to beam up all the male diesel mechanics, the food distribution system in the U.S. would crash within weeks.

The space aliens probably won't be by, but what will happen is that diesel mechanics whose children have been taken away from them, who are under restraining orders for some bogus spitefest by the ex-, and whose paycheck is being garnished to the point where they have $400 a month to live on, develop yer basic 'fuggit attitude.' Do that to enough of your diesel mechanics and garbage-scow tenders and refinery workers, and one day the whole thing just sorta falls over. And the guys who could've prevented it look at the mess and say, "You fix it."

Every time I read another one of those articles about the Irresponsible Young Men who behave as though they have lost interest in whether tomorrow is any better than today (for anyone but themselves), I wonder what's going on at their jobs. "Valve needs replacing? Aww, fuggit." Close the hood and go get lunch.

[Nick Danger]

the studies of Calhoun's rats

I don't know about Calhoun's rats. What's that about?

[nothingnew]

I prefer to sit back and watch or simply just walk away without a word...Radical feminists can't argue with your back..:)

Yeah...all I do anymore is laugh in their (the fems and the lib/progressives) faces...there's no dialogue to be had with blindered people. Laughing at them is one of my few pleasures anymore. That, and watching their faces turn beet red.

FMCDH

[nothingnew]

Wow. That was good. Bookmarked.

FMCDH

[nothingnew]

BTW...you're not related to Joey, are you?

FMCDH

[HitmanLV]

Indeed, the last thing a man would do is blame the decline on 'feminism' or anything else. Men aren't blamers.

[Nick Danger]

I think you're wrong. Name one instance of this phenomenon.

I do not understand your comment. There are three "phenomena" in the paragraph you referred to: years, individual men deciding that they no longer support the continued existence of a government which they consider their enemy, and governments falling over and expiring.

Are you challenging me to name an instance of a year? OK, 1985. An instance of a fallen government? That's the end point, we only get one of those, at the end. Asking me to name other instances of the government falling over makes no sense. So we're left with men who no longer think highly of a government that they see as their enemy. What do you want, a list? Are you suggesting there are no such men?

Hahahahahahahah! An organized movement by the working class to bring down society? Hahahahahahahah!

My editor warned me that a few dull normals might have that reaction, so he had me put in, "It's nothing organized, it's just a million little decisions not to give a damn anymore." Didn't do a damned bit of good, I see.

I thought the Soviet Union collapsed in a macro way, not a micro way.

It fell over. It was there one day, and the next day it was gone. Not a shot was fired. It was all a facade, corroded from the inside out. One day the shiny surface just collapsed... there was nothing behind it to hold it up.

[BudgieRamone]

Naw not related to Joey

[searchandrecovery]

There are three "phenomena" in the paragraph you referred to: years, individual men deciding that they no longer support the continued existence of a government which they consider their enemy, and governments falling over and expiring.

Seven years ago I thought we were about fifteen years away from government losing the consent of enough of its male governed that it would be pushed into falling. That still seems about right to me. I was referring to this: I thought we were about fifteen years away from government losing the consent of enough of its male governed that it would be pushed into falling.

You are (well, seemingly), saying that males will rise up and rebel against society, gubmint, whatever. I don't think this is true. If it were true, it would have happened by now (what with the destruction of marriage, feminized child support/custody, and bogus protection orders). Guys don't care. So, to reiterate, name one instance of one guy rebelling about "...government losing the consent of enough of its male governed that it would be pushed into falling.

My editor warned me that a few dull normals might have that reaction, so he had me put in, "It's nothing organized, it's just a million little decisions not to give a damn anymore." Didn't do a damned bit of good, I see.

Oh please. You should be above tyring to dish out insults. Again, please give an example of one (ONE!) "little decision not to give a damn anymore".

It fell over. It was there one day, and the next day it was gone...

Assignment for tonight - compare and contrast the demise of the ussr with the demise of the us.

[Nick Danger]

You are (well, seemingly), saying that males will rise up and rebel against society, gubmint, whatever.

No. There is no uprising. There's no need for one. Men can simply turn their backs on the whole thing. It's easy. For young men who didn't get roped into the marriage-and-divorce grinder, life will be different, but not bad in any way for them.

Being responsible for everything is work. The 'marriage deal', for men, was to put on a harness for thirty years and go be a draft animal. In return for this he got some semblance of honor and respect, and children he could enjoy and claim as his little contribution to the future. The electric linesman who got out of bed at 2 in the morning to go out and fix a downed power line in a snow storm didn't do that because it was fun. He did that because on his way out he would peek in the other bedroom and see those little ones in their cribs and think, "with this overtime we could buy them new beds."

Take away the guy's kids and his house, put him in a studio apartment with a hot plate instead of a stove, and all the air goes out of him. He used to care about making the world a better place for his kids. Now he doesn't care whether the world rots. In fact he hopes it does.

Except for the occasional nut (and we have had a few), you are not going see guys grabbing an M-1 and charging the Capitol. That's insane. The guy gets killed, and nothing changes. What we get instead are guys who have given up. They're Beat Dead Dads... squashed by a government that they hate, but that is too big and too powerful to take on. It has police and guns and courts and jails... the Rambo stuff is fantasy. The lights have gone out on these guys. But the fact that they don't care anymore collectively has a huge impact. We can't see it happening, but there is rot and decay building in all the little places where these guys work. If you've ever worked in a place where there was some kind of takeover, and all of a sudden everybody hates coming to work and nobody gives a damn anymore, you have seen how this proceeds. It all looks just peachy on the surface, but underneath, stuff is not getting done. The stuff that is getting done isn't being done well. The place never explodes, it just sort of creeps along. And one day it falls over.

give an example of one (ONE!) "little decision not to give a damn anymore".

What, you think somebody's going to publicize this? "Yep, I'm the guy who saw the wear marks on that worm gear in the MD-80, and I admit, I shoulda done something about that before it went down with all those people in it, but ya know, I just don't have the energy on this that I once did."

Nobody's going to write that. The stuff is just going to happen. I don't know that that particular incident happened that way, but you almost seem to be arguing that we can expect no ill effects from taking away from men the one thing that throughout human history, has caused men to organize themselves and bust their butts to make the future better than today.

A young man today can have no realistic expectation that he will be allowed to live in the same house with his own children, or to participate in raising them in any way. It's a total crap shoot, with a 50% chance of winding up in the studio apartment with the hot plate. That changes the game of "life" for men very dramatically. Now the "future of the world" doesn't matter anymore. The whole thing is "get by" and "have fun." It's actually an enormous relief, and in that way seductive. But for the society, it's a killer. The world is full of "matrilineal cultures" where men do not know who their children are, or have no ongoing contact with them. Look at 'em. 5,000 years later, they're still living in grass huts.

[JoJo Gunn]

"Norway rats have been bred in scientific laboratories since the middle
nineteenth century. Artificial selection has elicited-partly
through unconscious choices by laboratory personnel-a strain of rats
that is calmer, tamer, less aggressive, more fertile, and with significantly
smaller brains than their wild ancestors. All this is a convenience
for those experimenting on rats.

In a now-classic experiment, the psychologist John B. Calhoun let
Norway rats reproduce in an enclosure of fixed size until the number
of occupants, and therefore the population density, was very high. He
made sure, however, to provide everyone with enough to eat. What
happened?

As the population increased, a range of unusual behavior was
noted. Nursing mothers became somehow distracted, rejecting and
abandoning their infants, who would wither away and die. Despite the
surplus of ordinary food, the bodies of the newborn would be greedily
eaten by passersby. An adult female in heat or estrus would be pursued
relentlessly, not by one, but by a pack of males. She had no hope
of escape, or even sanctuary. Obstetrical and gynecological disorders
proliferated, and many females died giving birth, or from complications
soon after. When crowded together, the rats lost their inclination
or ability to build nests for themselves and their young; their desultory
constructions were amateurish and ineffective.

Among the males Calhoun distinguished four types: the dominant,
highly aggressive ones who, although "the most normal," would occasionally
go "berserk"; the homosexuals who made sexual advances
to adults and juveniles of both sexes (but, significantly, only to non ovulating
females): their invitations were generally accepted, or at
least tolerated, but they were frequently attacked by the dominant
males; a wholly passive population that "moved through the community
like somnambulists" with nearly complete social disorientation;
and a subgroup Calhoun calls the "probers," uninvolved in the struggle
for status but hyperactive, hypersexual, bisexual, and cannibalistic.

(from Carl Sagan and Ann Druyan-Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors 1992 pages 184-185)
_________________________

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:vjj8FGZBelYC:luna.cas.usf.edu/~miles/belchpt9.htm+%22behavioral+sink%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8



Animal study: Calhoun and the behavioral sink …. In his study rats were placed in a "perfect" environment, had adequate resources and were allowed to reproduce freely. The cage was designed so that 2 of the 4 rooms had only one entrance/exit, while the other 2 rooms had 2 entrances/exits. What happened was that in the 2 rooms with limited entrance/exit, a dominant male was able to maintain reasonable order, with limited crowding, normal feeding, socialization, and breeding. In the two rooms with multiple entrances/exits, no single male was able to maintain a normal dominance hierarchy, high density occurred, social order broke down, 4 classes of males developed (including marginally normal dominants, pansexuals, passive neutrals, and probers who were "hyperactive, hypersexual, homosexual/cannibals") and two classes of females (one abnormal in almost all manner, and the other marginally normal) occurred. Total chaos occurred in rooms 2 and 3. ….Would humans, if faced with such density levels act the same way?

[searchandrecovery]

They're Beat Dead Dads... squashed by a government that they hate, but that is too big and too powerful to take on.

Read your reply (including above). Now I understand what you're saying.

The whole thing is "get by" and "have fun." It's actually an enormous relief, and in that way seductive. But for the society, it's a killer.

Yep.

[Ta Wee]

O, another thread of men-are-pitiful-victims, and nostalgia for the Good Old Days when women were chattel.

This kind of whining and moaning is the very sort of thing that drives conservative women away from conservatism. Who wants to listen to such self-pity?

It is interesting that centuries of being chattel, of being considered less than human did not drive western women to crime, violence, and mayhem, and that the women who grew up on 1950s sitcoms showing women as ditzy fools did not decide they were hapless victims.

[Paul C. Jesup]

You sir are wiser than your years.

You understand more about what is going on today than most people.

I have learned a lot from you today.

[austinite]

50% chance of winding up in the studio apartment with the hot plate

Maybe ... Living in a van down by the river!

Cracking myself up....

[Freebird Forever]

Bump & Bookmark

[winodog]

Wow! May I use that and add to it. I think the 25+ million immigrants who will either go back to mexico or remain here on the welfare tit will contrbute to the problem.
I see the problem at work. Noone cares. They have no job loyalties. They have no pride in doing a good job like the men I worked beside 25 years ago.
And I thought it would take a armed revolution. It wont It will just fall apart especially when gov.org self destructs with their monetary problems.If they dont send out those welfare checks because not enough men are working to pay for them look out

Too many illegals are working under the rader here in the southwest. White foks are not dumb. They will start to do it to. Workers comp, general liability, medicare, soc. sec. unenjoyment insurance, commercial auto policy have all skyrocted in the past two years creating many problems for my business.
Many people are cheating the system. I was raised with morals and honesty and have not resorted to cheating but many are for the quick buck.
I could go on but I have to go pay the IRS.

[Nick Danger]

May I use that

Yes, in return for which I want a non-exclusive, perpetual license to use "gov.org". One can never have enough euphemisms for The Gubment.

[Nick Danger]

O, another thread of men-are-pitiful-victims, and nostalgia for the Good Old Days when women were chattel, etc. & etc. and you're all a bunch of wimps.

I hope you won't mind (you probably will, but too bad) if I use your note as an example of how women subconciously push the world toward monkey rules.

The idea of all men being created equal thoroughly confuses female reproductive programming, which wants to see some scheme out there for separating the alpha males from the chaff.

A society where the alpha males cannot really be identifed until they are almost 40 years old presents an enormous challenge to women. Time was, they could just look for the brutes at 15 or 16, and the same guys would still be king of the hill thirty years later. Now some nerd like Bill Gates, who probably couldn't get a date except with Mary Louise Girthwaist, turns out the billionaire... while the guy who was captain of the football team is now a meter reader for the gas company. Oh, for the days when you could just look for the guys with Duke or Earl in front of their names, and be done with it.

See, this is what's wrong with Title IX. The whole thing with high school and college athletics that the males can demonstrate how fast they can run and how high they can jump so that the girls can tell which of them are alpha males. Most girls could care less about jumping high and running fast themselves, they want the boys doing that so they can see which of them are the high jumpers and the fast runners. Today of course Bill Gates ends up the billionaire, but this is an age-old system and everybody pretends that it still has some predictive value.

So women have to operate in this thoroughly confusing place where any one of these nerds might turn out to be an alpha, and where brutishness — while exciting for some of those same age-old reasons — is almost a contra-indicator of future potential. What to do?

Raise the bar, and find some more bars to raise. Here's an idea: let's have the government squeeze these guys with every kind of arbitrary and discriminatory measure, and see which ones make it through the screen. Let's go compete with them ourselves in their so-called labor force and see which ones we can knock out and send to the botttom. Let's fill the whole culture with messages that tell little boys that they are genetic defectives who really ought not be here at all. A whole bunch of 'em won't make it past that one, and some more of the chaff will be eliminated.

Are women really sitting around consciously thinking such things? Hell, most people don't think... period. They just do stuff. But stratifying society to identify alpha males is a major need of female reproductive programming, and that goes pretty deep. It's probably down there in the lizard brain at the base of the skull, so it ain't going away.

So what does your note have to do with that? Well, shreiking at men that they are not to take down the bars, they are to jump over them, is part of making monkey rules work. "I am sick of hearing from men about this airplane we built that crashes half the time and leaves them dead. If they weren't such wimps, they'd just get on the damned thing."

Well, dead is a big number. Men will jump over the hurdles and block for the running back, but this deal of losing your kids and your house and being sentenced to twenty years of grinding poverty... naww, screw that.

That can only lead to more shrieking, because there's some reason to suspect that a man who won't get on an airplane that is known to crash frequently is a potential alpha. So instead of being some sort of courage test, this really high bar we put up turns out to screen against alphas.

Oh well, let's try shaming them into it... we'll tell 'em they're pitiful wimps, and immature, and irresponsible for not getting on the crashing plane. That'll work on at least some of 'em, at least until we come up with something else.