Army, Marines rate weapon success (M16A2/A4; M4; M9)

Stars and Stripes, European Edition ^ | Sunday, July 13, 2003 | Mark Oliva

[fourdeuce82d]

Also its not noticably got more recoil than the 9mm's

I suspect the total momentum transferred to the shooter is a little greater, but it is delivered at a slower pace. Most uncomfortable gun I shoot is my little SW Airweight- 2" aluminium snubby. OUCH!

[The KG9 Kid]

"... Sounds like they want the Navy's MK43. It has a foregrip, collapsible bipod, and an optional shorter barrel for fighting in enclosed structures."

No, no, a thousand times no.

The US Navy MK43 machineguns are just hand-me-down USMC M60-E3s. That's what the Marines upgraded to the M240 *from*. M60-E3s suck. Few Marines respected it. They're good enough for Navy work, though; They are capable weapons for security watch when mounted off the fantail of a ship in port.

The M240 is what the US military should have been using for the infantry GPMG since 1958, though we've been using it as an armor co-axial gun in various tanks since the early 1960s. Other NATO countries have been using it since then as an infantry weapon, designated the 'MAG-58'.

[colorado tanker]

Real men shoot weapons with the words "100" and "millimeters" in their description.

LOL! We think alike, friend!

[The KG9 Kid]

The Marine 'battle axe' I've seen from when I was in is an engineer tool that's usually just bought from local sources -- hardware stores nearby to camp. The ones I have seen are 8 or 10-pound mauls or log-splitters with a synthetic handle. Since the handle is usually bright yellow when purchased, someone will spraypaint it olive drab and maybe wrap some athletic tape around the haft. Sometimes they'll saw the handle down a little.

Marines first encounter these in urban warfare training.

[ezsmoke]

Springfield Armory has a High Capacity 1911. 1911 A1 HC

[ezsmoke]

Springfield Armory has a High Capacity 1911. 1911 A1 HC

[Travis McGee]

We focus so much on weapon and caliber, we forget how critical the BULLET is! After all, it's the bullet that does the work! The weapon just launches it.

[Travis McGee]

A .223 traveling less than around 3000fps when it hits the target makes a .22 hole. Might as well use a 22LR rifle.

So to you, a 77 grain .223 at 2,800fps is the same as a 40 grain .22LR at 1,000fps?

Spoken like a true gun pro. NOT.

[Britton J Wingfield]

Nope, it REPLACED the m60e3 for use by SEALs and Seabees. It's not the same weapon, despite looking rather similar.

http://www.specwargear.com/weapon.html

[Travis McGee]

I agree! Too bad not all units can be like SEALs, with a ten foot container per each 4 man squad, loaded with everything from .22 hushpuppies to .50 calibers!

[Joe Brower]

Yah. The only thing you can say for sure is that you don't want to get hit by ANY of them!

Hey, sort'a on the subject, if you haven't seen "Tears of the Sun" yet, go rent it. Besides a few "Hollywoodisms" (which you'll know when you see 'em), it's a pretty good flick. Certainly puts the SEALS in a good light.

[Travis McGee]

What does that 6mm case look like? Long and thin, or short and fat? I know "short and fat is where it's at" in bolt hunting and sniping rifles, but in an autoloader, case geometry is optimized by many other factors.

I know Armelite makes a .243 AR-10, that would be fun to shoot, but not if it's an orphan. I'd love to see a class of .243/6mm military rifles! The Brits almost adapted a 6mm in the 1950s, but lost out to our 7.62NATO.

[Joe Brower]

"So to you, a 77 grain .223 at 2,800fps is the same as a 40 grain .22LR at 1,000fps?"

I think this fellow is talking about punching holes in paper, in which case he's right. Even hitting meat, the entrance hole of a .223 will only be the bullet diameter (unless at extreme close range). The EXIT hole, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter, as thou well knowest.

[Joe Brower]

I don't know what the proto 6mm case dimensions are like. From what I heard, it sounded like a fat .223, using a fast burning powder. If I stumble across any details, I'll letcha know. Might be good for your next novel!

[Travis McGee]

Re 62: Sometimes do you wonder if ANYBODY ever read the old after action reports!?!? Talk about reinventing the wheel every time.

[Darksheare]

My weapon was somewhat flaky in that respect.
That never worked.
It varied from 12 right and 6 up to 9 right and 4 up.
I asked the armorer about it, and he pulled out my weapon and showed me how loose the upper was from the lower.
Not sure if that was his answer, but the look on his face was interesting.
My drill sars told us that, but as I said, my weapon never did that well enough for my tastes. (I'm a bit of a perfectionist.. but then again, out of my unit, I was the only one to score the 300 meter target dead between the eyes repeatedly..)

[Darksheare]

Saws have a variant that has a forward pistol grip.
Archy knows it's desig, I've forgotten it offhand since the only SAW I ever saw was the standard 249 fixed stock and squared foregrip version.
I still wished for that other variant of it...

[Travis McGee]

SEAL Team One, which has the primary middle eastern AOR, never did get rid of its .45s and M-14s.

But SEALs have the luxury of selection, from .22LR to .50 caliber for each four man element.

[Britton J Wingfield]

It works great for me as long as I keep my head in the same position all the time. I just make sure the tip of my nose touches the charging handle. It's not perfect, but at least starts you in the right ballpark.

[Britton J Wingfield]

Here's a better link:

http://www.m60central.com/models.html