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Dart Container Owners - Gave Up US Citizenship
Forbes Magazine ^ | 7-21-03 | J.N and William P. Barrett

Posted on 07/13/2003 1:28:09 PM PDT by doosee

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I think a lot of coffee drinkers are patronizing these two patriots. Not me.....

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1 posted on 07/13/2003 1:28:10 PM PDT by doosee
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To: All
When Clinton was asked what he thought of foreign affairs he replied, "I don't know, I never had one." (As usual, he lied)
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2 posted on 07/13/2003 1:29:24 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: doosee
Paying taxes is patriotic?
I've heard a line on patriotism like yours before:
"There is the great, silent, continuous struggle: the struggle between the State and the Individual; between the State which demands and the individual who attempts to evade such demands. Because the individual, left to himself, unless he be a saint or hero, always refuses to pay taxes, obey laws, or go to war."
-Benito Mussolini
3 posted on 07/13/2003 1:57:18 PM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: Gunslingr3
Paying taxes is patriotic?

No, read the post, these two brothers gave up their US citizenship......

4 posted on 07/13/2003 2:00:12 PM PDT by doosee
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To: doosee
No, read the post, these two brothers gave up their US citizenship......

and, in the context of the article, it's because they figure that millions of dollars in taxes are enough. It's certainly millions more than I'll ever contribute.

5 posted on 07/13/2003 2:10:11 PM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: Gunslingr3
in the context of the article, it's because they figure that millions of dollars in taxes are enough

To clarify, Dart Industries the corporation has been fighting against paying their taxes and that doesnt set me off. However, the two Dart Brothers named above will not pay ANY personal income tax having renounced citizenship. They are part of ownership. If it could be done, I would like people like this barred from ever setting foot in the US ever again..

6 posted on 07/13/2003 2:17:12 PM PDT by doosee
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To: doosee
However, the two Dart Brothers named above will not pay ANY personal income tax having renounced citizenship.

You know a lot that just isn't true.

"Under current expatriation law, there are wealth thresholds based on net worth which lead to a presumption that a person giving up U.S. citizenship is doing so for tax reasons. Individuals who have given up their citizenship and who have earned $100,000 in any one of the 10 years before expatriation, or who have a net worth exceeding $500,000, would automatically be deemed a so-called "taxpatriate." Those persons would be subject to ordinary income tax on U.S. source income for 10 years. They would also be subject to U.S. estate and gift tax during the 10-year period."

link

They are part of ownership. If it could be done, I would like people like this barred from ever setting foot in the US ever again..

I'd rather have more people able to generate millions of dollars of wealth and less of the people willing to tax millions of dollars of wealth away. Why don't you bar them instead?

7 posted on 07/13/2003 2:29:16 PM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: Gunslingr3
Good reply.

The Dart brothers do us all good by showing the State that there are alternatives, they don't own us, and that there is a limit to the amount of taxation that people will take. This helps reduce taxes for the rest of us.

8 posted on 07/13/2003 4:04:23 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: doosee
"I would like people like this barred from ever setting foot in [this country] ever again."

A like sentiment was probably expressed by their neighbors when your forebears sailed for these shores.
9 posted on 07/13/2003 4:48:27 PM PDT by John Beresford Tipton
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To: marktwain
"they don't own us"

It appears that some Freepers disagree and feel that do.
10 posted on 07/13/2003 4:49:33 PM PDT by John Beresford Tipton
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To: John Beresford Tipton
"feel that do."
should be:
"feel that they do."
11 posted on 07/13/2003 4:50:29 PM PDT by John Beresford Tipton
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To: Gunslingr3
If it's a legal tax duly enacted, then YES, paying taxes is patriotic.

If you don't love your country enough to help support it then get the heck out of here! You have no duty to pay more than is legally required. And if you feel taxes are too high (as I do) you can lobby to try to have them reduced.

But to break the law and not pay legal and fair taxes while your setting on your butt enjoying the security and economic benefits of this great nation is.....

TREASON!!!

The Darts wouldn't owe millions of dollars in taxes if it wasn't for this great country where they were able to make even more millions of dollars.

12 posted on 07/13/2003 5:15:00 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: DannyTN
"If it's a legal tax duly enacted, then YES, paying taxes is patriotic."


Oh, dear, and to think that those Americans that threw the tea into the harbor were called "patriots."
13 posted on 07/13/2003 5:33:46 PM PDT by John Beresford Tipton
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To: Gunslingr3
"Why don't you bar them instead?"

Indeed. ;^)

14 posted on 07/13/2003 5:42:21 PM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: DannyTN
If it's a legal tax duly enacted, then YES, paying taxes is patriotic.

Guess I'm more interested in liberty than your notions of 'patriotism'.

If you don't love your country enough to help support it then get the heck out of here!

I don't think having my money confiscated to fund abortions, or otherwise rob Peter to pay Paul is helping support my country.

And if you feel taxes are too high (as I do) you can lobby to try to have them reduced.

Did John Hancock lobby, or did he lobby and smuggle goods? Tax evasion is my kind of patriotism, because it supports individual liberty better than the state.

But to break the law and not pay legal and fair taxes while your setting on your butt enjoying the security and economic benefits of this great nation is.....TREASON!!!

You think taxing an individual for millions of dollars is fair? From each according to his ability, right comrade? Pardon me while I puke.

The Darts wouldn't owe millions of dollars in taxes if it wasn't for this great country where they were able to make even more millions of dollars.

The Darts created millions of dollars of value to their customers. That is the way they could get millions of dollars. Do you think it is because of the moochers and looters in government that this company makes money? Tell me, what portion of the federal government's budget do you think goes toward securing individual liberties and what portion goes toward violating them? You ever taken a gander at what the Federal government does with the 2+ TRILLION dollars it takes from us? I applaud men like the Darts that can keep millions of dollars out of the hands of the bureaucrats so eager to squander it.

15 posted on 07/13/2003 5:57:10 PM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: Gunslingr3
"Guess I'm more interested in liberty than your notions of 'patriotism'. "

BS! You are interested in your own selfish aims. You want to take advantage of everything America has to offer and suffer none of the cost. Let's all stop paying taxes and lets see how long you have liberty!

I don't think having my money confiscated to fund abortions, or otherwise rob Peter to pay Paul is helping support my country.

I agree with you on abortions, and only partially on paying Paul. But the fact is we still vote don't we? Are the elections rigged? I don't agree with everything this country does. But it's the closest thing to liberty any nation ever has had. When we forget the rule of law, all is lost.

Did John Hancock lobby, or did he lobby and smuggle goods? Tax evasion is my kind of patriotism, because it supports individual liberty better than the state.

They lobbied first. They petitioned the King for representation. "No taxes without Representation" Remember that. In fact it wasn't just taxes that caused them to revolt. The way Britain was conscripting people randomly and at will played a role too.

You think taxing an individual for millions of dollars is fair? From each according to his ability, right comrade? Pardon me while I puke.

When they earn tens and hundreds of millions of dollars because of this country's economic system. Yes I think it's fair. You don't defend a country like this for free. There are a lot of countries out there who would love to have a piece of us. Go puke in some other country. Go to Africa, I bet they don't pay much taxes there if you are such a lover of liberty.

I applaud men like the Darts that can keep millions of dollars out of the hands of the bureaucrats so eager to squander it.

Without the laws of this country, the darts couldn't have made anything. Yes, I've looked at the country's budget. If you don't like it vote against it. But when you sit there and tell me you are in favor of breaking the law when we voted the legislators into office, then I hope you get caught and spent the rest of your days without any rights in levinworth.

I'd rather put up with a bunch of lying liberals than the kind of

Treason!!!

you espouse. You don't care for this country. You care only for yourself.
16 posted on 07/13/2003 6:55:15 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: John Beresford Tipton
Oh, dear, and to think that those Americans that threw the tea into the harbor were called "patriots."

Those "patriots" petitioned the king for representation, before they threw the tea. We have representation.

17 posted on 07/13/2003 6:56:30 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: Gunslingr3
Under the current regime, the U.S. government has to prove that potential expatriates are leaving the country for tax reasons.

The article you linked to is from a British paper and a freelance writer, not what I consider expert tax accounting authority like you do. The IRS cannot lay a finger on the Darts and you well know it. I can just see the govt. lawyers now saying in court, Well your honor, we think the Darts gave up citizenship for tax purposes because Gunslingr3 from Free Republic told us so. Right on --- I am glad we dont have too many that think like you and the Darts...

18 posted on 07/13/2003 7:08:10 PM PDT by doosee
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To: marktwain
The Dart brothers do us all good by showing the State that there are alternatives, they don't own us, and that there is a limit to the amount of taxation that people will take. This helps reduce taxes for the rest of us

By giving up citizenship they are teaching us a lesson? well what ever happened to fighting to keep your country free from the over bearing tax man ? Screw the dart brothers and their millions they're not patriots they are greedy cowards

The problem as i see it is taking back what is ours from the taxman and his overbearing burden not running from it !

By the way where is the limit? i've not seen one yet unless you consider the idiots that sell courses in how to evade taxes as an alternative. then that still again is wrong

Taxes may not be a popular thing but in this country the necessity far outgrows the overbearing needNOT the answer .

19 posted on 07/13/2003 7:58:41 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK ("Nothing recedes like success. ")
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
REposting the end

Taxes may not be a popular thing but in this country the necessity far outgrows the overbearing need giving up citizenship is NOT the answer.

20 posted on 07/13/2003 8:02:39 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK ("Nothing recedes like success. ")
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