Biology textbook hearings prompt science disputes [Texas]

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 08 July 2003 | MATT FRAZIER

[longshadow]

"Parade of very, very agitated, Wildly Elliptical, self-confessed Tractionless Trolls" placemarker

[f.Christian]

Isn't it a whole lot -- completely totalitarian forcing your atheist ideology -- rants on a a country that was meant to be secular theists - neutral ...

now totally PRO ANTI - thiest ---

forced - monopoly is called TYRANNY !

Your rhetoric - agenda ...

btw ---

truth never included murder -- arrogance --- so much ego - pride - BIAS - hate of GOD - America - conservatism !

Sneaky aren't you !

[whattajoke]

"Get that thru your head. I don't give a flip what you think about my community - you don't live here and you have no right to tell us how to live. Get that thru your thick skull."

Christian-love-as-expressed-by-exmarine-placemarker

[js1138]

Hitler, of course, was not "inspired" by Christianity to kill Jews; he was using words that he thought would appeal to his audience. But just as Hitler's appeal to Jesus doesn't discredit Christianity, his appeals to "science" do not discredit evolution.

I am really inspired by this thread. Although it is periodically interrupted by flame wars, It has more excellent posts than average.

[f.Christian]

The evo FR elite with knives ...

here to save the fr from the ' flat earthers ' bible believers who reject their modern satanic ways ---

want to establish their monopoly - TYRANNY on the fr for their STRANGE false gods - religion - science !

science political PERVERTS !

[f.Christian]

Due to prosecutorial and media hyper activism ... i.e. --- waco ---


a lot of innocent people were persecuted and still are being punished by witch justice --- mass hysteria --- just like evolution perverting and attacking science // america // fr like a career criminal enterprise that it is !

[PatrickHenry]

But just as Hitler's appeal to Jesus doesn't discredit Christianity, his appeals to "science" do not discredit evolution.

You're in big trouble now! The hard-core creationoids sit back and wait for posts like that one. You know how they love to take things out of context and distort the meaning. Soon they'll be screeming to the mods: "They're Christian-bashing again, this time using Hitler to discredit Christianity!"

I've posted this before, and this probably isn't the last time I get to re-post it:

You can't be subtle with a literalist. Nor sarcstic. Nor can you use analogies. Nor can you use a reductio ad absurdum argument. They really do take everything literally (unless they don't want to, but then it's okay). They get offended very easily. It is actually their pleasure to get offended, so they can imagine they're engaged in a battle with evil. And they love any pretext to hit the abuse button.

Therefore, you have to use simple, declarative sentences, and don't ever get too abstract. Never use humor; they just don't get it (unless it's at the level of "evolutionist falls into a manhole, hahahaha"). If you follow this advice, you won't have to apologize any more over contrived misunderstandings.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Perhaps the Creationists are really Gray Lady Intern trainees.

[f.Christian]

The post office makes a lot of money on stamps that never circulate - go anywhere ...

the govt public schools - science too ---

that is what you are !

Evo loop - tyranny ... big business --- conspiracy !!

[f.Christian]

Evos ... flat brainers covered in mush --- particle board - glue science !

Mesermized chained audience ... cattle prods --- gas // chloroform - lobotomists !

[js1138]

Since I post with lurkers as my intended audience, I really don't care what the opposition dredges up. As I have said befor, there are only three creo posters who ever bring science to the table, there are a few who can engage in a sensible discussion about political or philosophical matters, and the rest just stand at the sidelines and hoot.

The issue of the "guilt" of science could be interesting in the hands of an honest person, but when your witnesses are marxists, you admit defeat in advance. I am, however, indebted to gore and ALS for forcing out actual Darwin quotes on the subject of slavery. Just as I am indebted to gore for finding articles that support evolution when actually read.

[f.Christian]

Ultimately // SOON ...

God // science will convincingly devastate - destroy all superstition and the 1st to go will be evolution (( tiny fish in a mud puddle )) ---

science - technology3000 ... designeduniverse.com --- architecture !

[js1138]

We seem to have encountered a tag team. One is out to lunch and the other is busy, shovel in hand.

[f.Christian]

Liberals - evos are going to 6 way blindsided --- SMASHED !

Evolution is an urban legend popular among the unscientific who don't know a theory from fact !

Real science is coming ... designeduniverse.com --- evolution is a fraud pepetuated by the ignorant !

Just reading the Bible the founding fathers plainly knew this beast would arrive and cover - tyrannize the nation but we would have to deal with it ... so we are -- will !

designeduniverse.com ... the obituary of evolution penned by freepers ...

yours truly !

[bondserv]

My brother lives in the Las Vegas area. The valley's elevation increases as you travel north. The Mountains surrounding the valley a very jagged. Along the base, maybe 1000-2000 feet above the valley floor, there is a 1000 to 2000 foot mound of dirt that runs the length of the valley.

The mound is pushed up against the mountains on the low side of the valley and appears to have been deposited by a massive water flow running down the valley. There are rock outcroppings, maybe 200 feet high toward the middle of the valley, away from the mountains, that consistently have large mounds of buildup on the low side, but wiped clean on the high side.

For me this valley exhibits water flow that could push massive amounts of mud up against a mountain range all the way down a 50 mile long valley.

[js1138]

I know we don't read effdot's posts, but in scrolling through them the last month or so, I noticed references to something amazing that was coming.

I now realize that he was speaking of designeduniverse.com rather than the stellar ignition of Jupiter for the benefit of Europans. I am attempting to contain my disappointment.

Nevertheless, I'd say it is a strategic error for an ID site to post links to actual science articles. Someone might read them. The difference in tone and quality between articles written by scientists and those written by pscientists is self evident.

[js1138]

For me this valley exhibits water flow that could push massive amounts of mud up against a mountain range all the way down a 50 mile long valley.

And how long for that mud to turn to stone? I always thought this was a legitimate line of research for creationists, determining by experiment how long it takes for stone to form from sediment and for organic materials to fossilize.

[f.Christian]

What I write - PUBLISH will be on the presidents desk the same day ...

around the world a thousand x 's in one hour --- too bad !

[AndrewC]

What else can you reasonably call people who quote marxists to prove that Darwin supported slavery?

Are the quotes fictitious, or is it a question of viewpoint?

[Stultis]

Thanks. Looks like ALS cribbed the concatenation, although maybe he is the author. Best as I can tell neither letter is available on the net, though I may check more later. (Neither are in Francis Darwin's Life and Letters or More Letters, both available in complete form on the net.) Here are the entries from Darwin Correspondence Online Database:

Oops, well actually I'm having trouble making out the citation in Desmond and Moore for the first letter ("beyond the bounds of true science," quoted on pg 456 in their book). It should be from June of 1858, according to the chronology of their text, but there doesn't seem to be a letter that fits from that time, and it sounds to me, from the portion quoted, like it may have been shortly after Darwin informed Gray of his views on evolution, which was sometime before that. I'll try to sort it out.

Here is the entry for the second letter ("mere rag of an hypothesis"):

2466: Darwin, C. R. to Huxley, T. H., 2 Jun [1859?]
Summary: THH should understand that CD's hypothesis [natural selection] has as many flaws and holes as sound parts. The question is whether CD's rag of a hypothesis is worth anything. A poor rag is better than nothing to carry one's fruit to market.