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Biology textbook hearings prompt science disputes [Texas]
Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 08 July 2003 | MATT FRAZIER

Posted on 07/09/2003 12:08:32 PM PDT by PatrickHenry

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To: Stultis
I love your research. It is a real breath of fresh air from the flame war.
2,801 posted on 07/15/2003 8:48:37 AM PDT by js1138
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To: exmarine
What the heck are you freaking out about?

If you want to teach your kids however you want, it's FINE with us, for god's sake Ex you need to get a grip.

I homeschool my kids, I have NO problem with you doing the same.

But, if you choose to have your children educated in Public School, expect them to be taught science, no matter how much it upsets you. Evolution will be taught in science class, not next to ID though, because ID has not shown itself to be science, by a LONG shot!! As a matter of fact, it hasn't even tried.

We are conservatives as well, and feel you have every right to teach your kids whatever you want. The earth is flat, it's turtles all the way down, the stars are holes in the firmament etc, etc. Great, teach them whatever you want, they are YOUR kids, but we are not going to let you teach that to them in publicly payed for schools.

So, if you want to teach your kids Junk science, homeschool them. Easy stuff.
2,802 posted on 07/15/2003 8:49:21 AM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)
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To: bondserv
I have taken geology in college (Late 80's) and felt that these questions were never answered.

In the case of the ocean limestones, it tends to be chock-full of marine fossils. They die. They sink. Other stuff falls on top. More stuff falls on top of that.

Maybe eventually conditions change and deposition stops. What was sea bottom is lifted up so that surf and tides wear on it. Some of the sediment wears away, but maybe not all. Maybe it eventually becomes tidal swamp, with a different kind of deposition layered over what was the bottom half of the original limestone layer.

What tends to happen is that any given slice of geography has periods of deposition. There's missing data between the layers. This happens because just locally erosion predominated for a time. (But you can fill in the picture by moving around and sampling lots of places around the area. You compare and correlate. Dig A might show a layer between layers which are successive in Dig B simply because there was less erosion at the site of Dig A.

This is elementary geology. Shame they didn't cover it in a college-level intro course.

2,803 posted on 07/15/2003 8:49:26 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: exmarine
Are you really this paranoid?

I would LOVE to have school choice, it would be GREAT!!

But since we don't, I homeschool, why do I homeschool?

Because I will NOT allow my children to be used as a political weapon by anyone. And I will also NOT allow them to be dumbed down by our government schools.

At least some school boards have some common sense, and realize that science is science and should not be mixed with religious dogma, it is the most common sense I have seen out of some of these school boards.
2,804 posted on 07/15/2003 8:52:54 AM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)
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To: VadeRetro
Talking to yourself again. :-)

This is also good example of how there's no way the geologic column anywhere in the world looks like one big flood.

It would be interesting to create a computer model of such an event and see what comes up.

2,805 posted on 07/15/2003 8:54:04 AM PDT by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: exmarine
Good grief, I have never heard such paranoia in all my life.

Evolution is a scientific theory, NOTHING more, NOTHING less, You wish to use it as an excuse for the amoralistic attitudes in the world today, that is your problem, perhaps it is the churches fault for not trying to fill in the gap as the children of the last few generations were dumbed down by the government.

Perhaps it is the fault of the parents for not caring what their children were doing while they were both working, but to blame a scientific theory for all the worlds problems is kinda like Hitler blaming the Jews for the problems in the 30's.

It is NOT the fault of the scientific theory, and as you place the blame on something else, the true problem never gets fixed.

Sometimes I feel sorry for you guys, I really, really do.
2,806 posted on 07/15/2003 8:57:12 AM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)
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To: exmarine
you people

Now, somebody might be offended by that. Where Is Jesse's number?

2,807 posted on 07/15/2003 8:58:55 AM PDT by RightWhale (gazing at shadows)
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To: Aric2000
What the heck are you freaking out about?

I'm funny that way...I tend to get riled when elitist oppressors try to tell me how to live my life or raise my children.

If you want to teach your kids however you want, it's FINE with us, for god's sake Ex you need to get a grip.

I have a grip...on my rights under the U.S. Constitution. I think you evolutionists need to get a grip on what individual freedom is about.

But, if you choose to have your children educated in Public School, expect them to be taught science, no matter how much it upsets you.

Yes, a scientific theory is mandated by the govt. - so much for freedom of thought. Can you think of another that is?

Evolution will be taught in science class, not next to ID though, because ID has not shown itself to be science, by a LONG shot!! As a matter of fact, it hasn't even tried.

That's your opinion based on your naturalistic presuppositions. Parents have a right to tell you to go jump in the lake. If 20 million parents did that, you all would have to surrender as you can't put 20 million people in jail. That day is coming when people will stand up and tell you to stuff your theory where the sun doesn't shine. The position of evolutionists is: Darwinism is science because we say it is, and nothing else will be taught in govt. schools because we say so.

2,808 posted on 07/15/2003 9:01:21 AM PDT by exmarine
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To: whattajoke
And now you claim that evolutionists don't link articles or cite passages?! You've truly lost it.

Gore accused me of removing key parts of an article for which I posted the link.

2,809 posted on 07/15/2003 9:01:54 AM PDT by js1138
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To: RightWhale
Now, somebody might be offended by that. Where Is Jesse's number?

Yes, and Robert E. Lee referred to unionists as "those people". Call Jesse - I have something to say to that racist as well.

2,810 posted on 07/15/2003 9:03:09 AM PDT by exmarine
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To: Aric2000
Evolution is a scientific theory, NOTHING more, NOTHING less,

Really? If that is all it is, WHY is it the only scientific theory mandated for teaching by the U.s. govt? Answer the question.

2,811 posted on 07/15/2003 9:04:11 AM PDT by exmarine
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To: VadeRetro
Maybe they didn't cover it because it doesn't work out as you describe it.

My geology professor took us on a 2-week trip to Lemon Mountain near Tucson, AZ. In that area you have such a wide variety of climates. (I nearly froze at night in my Roy Rogers sleeping bag).

There are many amazing geological sites to see there. Confusing, but interesting.
2,812 posted on 07/15/2003 9:05:22 AM PDT by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: exmarine
VadeRetro:And you do? [Have authority over schoolbooks in Texas]

exmarine: I have authority over my own kids (you don't have any legitimate say over my kids) and if there were any justice in this nation, I would have a say over what is taught IN MY COMMUNITY SCHOOLS.

I would hope you would want them to know more about science than you do, but that's clearly far from the case. Your kids aren't just your pets. Other people have to deal with your failure to educate them. And how big is this "community" where the standards are established? Is it every town that polls its citizens and sets its own textbook standards? Every county? Is it done at the state level? (It apparently is in Texas.) Whatever it takes before the Witch Doctors win something, somewhere?

exmarine: If the majority of parents in any given community anwywhere want the curriculum changed, who are you to say they can't? It's their community.

If they want to teach the kids the Wicca religion instead of science, is that OK? Community standards and all that.

VadeRetro: But who are these big money men funding the Discovery Institute to go into Texas and stir up this issue? Are they from Texas? Have you checked?

I think you completely whiffed on this one. Want to try for strike two?

2,813 posted on 07/15/2003 9:05:25 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: exmarine
As I said, if you don't like it, homeschool, and I noticed that you pretty much ignored the rest of my post, what's the problem, too much agreement for you?
2,814 posted on 07/15/2003 9:05:47 AM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)
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To: Aric2000
but to blame a scientific theory for all the worlds problems is kinda like Hitler blaming the Jews for the problems in the 30's.

I did no such thing. Show me where I did that.

Sometimes I feel sorry for you guys, I really, really do.

Feel sorry for yourself. You are ignorant of the U.S. Constitution and the freedoms extended therefrom.

2,815 posted on 07/15/2003 9:06:42 AM PDT by exmarine
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To: exmarine
Atheism is also religion - I demand that you stop teaching it in govt. schools.

Failure to teach Genesis in science class is not teaching atheism. If you're talking about anything else, please explain yourself better.

2,816 posted on 07/15/2003 9:07:23 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: razorbak
I continue to find it ironic that your id, "Patrick Henry," is taken from a man who was a noted Creationist. ... The real Patrick Henry would be appalled to have his name associated with you.

The original Patrick Henry lived and died before Darwin published his theory. Of course he was a creationist. Virtually everyone was in his time. But I think that if he were alive today, brilliant fellow that he was, he would be persuaded by the evidence. How do I know this? He told us so:

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves ...
From the famous "Liberty or Death" speech, March 23, 1775


2,817 posted on 07/15/2003 9:08:44 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: exmarine
If 20 million parents did that, you all would have to surrender

Concepts totally sublimated, hard to breathe this rarified philosophic air.

2,818 posted on 07/15/2003 9:09:15 AM PDT by RightWhale (gazing at shadows)
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Another placemarker.
2,819 posted on 07/15/2003 9:09:21 AM PDT by Junior (Killed a six pack ... just to watch it die.)
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To: bondserv
It would be interesting to create a computer model of such an event and see what comes up.

You being unaware of elementary geology does not equate to geology not existing.

2,820 posted on 07/15/2003 9:10:30 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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