Biology textbook hearings prompt science disputes [Texas]

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 08 July 2003 | MATT FRAZIER

[CobaltBlue]

Since you believe that the Universe is about 15 billion years old, is it possible that some Young Earth Creationists are simply being stubborn?

I did not realize until researching the issue yesterday the doctrine of inerrancy of the Bible is relatively new. I find this very interesting because the Catholic doctrine of Papal infallibility is also relatively new.

Could they both be rear-guard actions attempting to ward off the erosion of turf due to scientific advancement?

Put another way, is Creationism really so important to religion? Didn't Christianity get along fairly well for 1900 years or so without worrying about Creationism?

I think it's well documented that the 1869-1870 decrees on Papal infallibility were intended as a response to rationalism, deism, and 19th century liberalism (which is not what we call liberalism today).

Could the same be said about Fundamentalism and the belief in the inerrancy of the Bible? It was never there before, why is it here now?

You're comfortable with accepting scientific advancement and able to say that God does what God does and mankind attempts to comprehend as best as we can. You don't feel a need to explain away what's as plain as the nose on your face.

I think this is healthy.

Without naming names, I trust it is apparent to you that some of your fellow fundamentalists here on FreeRepublic are mentally unstable and/or suffer from sadistic personality disorder, which is not healthy.

Just some thoughts.

[Aric2000]

I see that you have no interest in having a civil debate, therefore you will go onto the virtual ignore list as well.

Too bad, I was hoping for better from you.

You are the same as the rest of the creationists here.

Interested in only disrupting and criticizing the posters that disagree with you.

That's too bad.

Well, if you wish to be associated with such as ALS, that is your problem, not mine.

I do feel that it is too bad though.

Onto virtual ignore for you as well, you are obviously not worth the time to type a post to.

Since you failed to understand the post that I took the time, out of respect for your post, to post for you, that again is too bad.

And you sir are the opinionater and critic, and ALS is JUST as much a disrupter as he ever was, just as you seem to be.

If you want evidence, then keep the threads civil so that the threads do NOT get pulled, then maybe I will take the time to post evidence etc. Until then, I will continue to criticize you and others for your disruptive behavior.

[CobaltBlue]

>>if they to homeschool they are harrased<< [sic]

I know people who homeschool, have for many years, never any problem.

[Aric2000]

Perhaps he has, I don't know, that is one of the first posts of his that I have noticed, notice also that I did NOT respond to it.

[VadeRetro]

You can object all you want, you still have no authority over anyone's children but your own.

And you do? Or are you objecting to the very existence of this thread, a national discussion of a supposedly local Texan issue? But who are these big money men funding the Discovery Institute to go into Texas and stir up this issue? Are they from Texas? Have you checked?

By the way, you are too late - the schools are already dumbed down.

To my own knowledge, I'm not fighting to make the problem worse. You want to keep the kids as confused and ignorant as yourself. Creationism, being religion, dare not speak its name in a discussion of school textbooks. Thus it fights for ID, a militant ignorance of any evidence that creationism is ridiculous as science.

[bondserv]

Easy big guy, no need to get defensive. I am looking for real answers.

Those were hypotheticals, I wasn't quoting anyone. I have taken geology in college (Late 80's) and felt that these questions were never answered. (At the time I was more open to the possibility of evolution and assumed an old Earth).

My question is what are the modern geologic explanations for how the various sediments were laid?

There is no reason to play games here.

[Aric2000]

Patrick Henry HAD to be a believer, there was NO Theory of evolution at that time, everyone of that time was a creationist, it's ALL there was.

I love hjow you guys have such an interesting memory and historical perspective.

To ignore facts and evidence seems to be a widespread phenomonon with you guys.

[js1138]

But, the fact is that ALS does present a lot of evidence to support his beliefs, whether you believe it or not, he uses specific references that go beyond editorializing on someone else's post's. But, the fact is that ALS does present a lot of evidence to support his beliefs, whether you believe it or not, he uses specific references that go beyond editorializing on someone else's post's.

And what might those beliefs be? Would you care to summarize The ALS position on any scientific issue and characterize his evidence for that position?

[Aric2000]

LOL, indeed, good one Andrew.

But like I said, I did not respond to him either, that is one of the first posts of his that I have noticed or actually, had brought to my attention.

[Condorman]

RIGHTWHALE WROTE: "Perhaps those who question the basic idea of evolution have a political agenda, and if so, they ought to be upfront about it because right now they simply appear to be irrational."

ONELIFETOGIVE RESPONDED: "Perhaps those who refuse to question the basic idea of evolution have a political agenda, and if so, they ought to be upfront about it because right now they simply appear to be irrational."

THEN, SAID CONCERNED: BINGO!

Perhaps you can address my (admittedly hastily written) response to Onelifetogive.

Here is the basic idea of evolution:

The diversity of life arose through the interaction of three mechanisms--

Phenotypical variation within a population
Unequal reproductive success of the members of a population
Inheritability of those phenotypical variations

Now, which of these are driving a political agenda and should be questioned?
257 posted on 07/09/2003 6:59 PM EDT by Condorman

[exmarine]

I know people who homeschool, have for many years, never any problem.

Coming to a community near you! There are plenty of examples in the news from all over the country. Parents have been unjustly charged with truancy, told that they required to have teaching credentials to quality as a home-schooling parent, etc. etc., yet homeschoolers BURY govt school students in every single academic category! Those creationists sure are dumb! (/sarcasm off) The govt schools feel THREATENED by home-schoolers and the day is coming when it will be outlawed if you darwinists and your curriculum gestapo have any say.

[MEGoody]

"But no one's going to convince me that those books need some "different" science until I see something besides arguments recycled from the grab-bag of creationist screeches at evolution."

Seems the school board is having meetings on the issue. Attend some.

[Condorman]

HalfFull: Evolution cannot be tested (although the has been no lack of trying...witness what's been done to the unfortunate fruit fly). The fact that fossils exist in no way proves evolution is the best explanation of the bone yard. Proof is the issue.

Stultis: Make up your mind. Which is the issue, "testing" or "proof"? If the later, please cite an example of a scientific theory, preferably (for purposes of comparison) a biological one, that you consider to have been "proven".

HalfFull: < -- Insert Response Here -- >

[exmarine]

And you do? Or are you objecting to the very existence of this thread, a national discussion of a supposedly local Texan issue? But who are these big money men funding the Discovery Institute to go into Texas and stir up this issue? Are they from Texas? Have you checked?

I have authority over my own kids (you don't have any legitimate say over my kids) and if there were any justice in this nation, I would have a say over what is taught IN MY COMMUNITY SCHOOLS. If the majority of parents in any given community anwywhere want the curriculum changed, who are you to say they can't? It's their community.

[Condorman]

"Why don't you [gentlemen] have a Pepsi?"

That wasn't in "Get Smart"...

[js1138]

What a bunch of liars. "Liars for Christ", I call 'em.

What else can you reasonably call people who quote marxists to prove that Darwin supported slavery?

[MEGoody]

"Didn't Christianity get along fairly well for 1900 years or so without worrying about Creationism?"

There was no other theory. Evolutionary theory is 'fairly new'. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? (Your post seemed to indicate it wasn't a good thing, but perhaps I misunderstood your intent.)

[Condorman]

Oh, the humanity!

[MEGoody]

"I see that you have no interest in having a civil debate, therefore you will go onto the virtual ignore list as well. You are the same as the rest of the creationists here."

So much for civil debate.

[exmarine]

To my own knowledge, I'm not fighting to make the problem worse. You want to keep the kids as confused and ignorant as yourself. Creationism, being religion, dare not speak its name in a discussion of school textbooks. Thus it fights for ID, a militant ignorance of any evidence that creationism is ridiculous as science.

Ahhh, anti-Christian bigotry rears its ugly head again. Atheism is also religion - I demand that you stop teaching it in govt. schools. For an ignoramus, I sure seem to know more about the intent of our founders and the Constitution of the United States than any of you evolutionists. And we all know that most home-schoolers are Christians - yet they outperform govt. schoolers. So, if homeschoolers are ignoramuses becuase they are taught creationism, what does that make govt. school kids? Buffoons? Nitwits? Victims of educational oppression?