Biology textbook hearings prompt science disputes [Texas]

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 08 July 2003 | MATT FRAZIER

[CobaltBlue]

If you run a google search inputting "christ created the universe" you get 116 hits. If you input "god created the universe" you get 11,600 hits, exactly 1000 times the first search.

[PatrickHenry]

P L A C E M A R K E R

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the interesting statistics! But I'm not sure what meaning can be derived from it since we believe in the Trinity, and to those of us who are Christian Fundamentalist, the adjudicator of the challenge is the Bible.

[longshadow]

echoing placemarker

[BMCDA]

"christ created the universe"

I also never heard of that version. Maybe it's because I am of old Lutheran stock ;^)

[Junior]

I trust that I will be able to ask Him one day.

A "science doesn't need to study anything as God will tell us all about it one day" placemarker.

[CobaltBlue]

I don't think of this as a "challenge", but if it is, I am not holding myself out as an expert worthy of being challenged on the Bible.

As I've said before, maybe not on this thread, I think that in order to really understand the Bible you need to be able to read ancient Hebrew, Greek and Latin, at a minimum, plus understand the historical contexts in which each book was written, plus be thoroughly conversant with the entire Bible, not just picking out verses here and there.

Using logic, I find it strains my own credibility to believe that Jesus created Himself, created His mother, and made her pregnant. If so, he'd simultaneously be His own father and his own grandpa. Such things may happen in parts of Appalachia, but are mighty unseemly to me.

For Catholics, Christ is the Son of God, co-eternal and co-equal, but of a different nature. "I am in the Father and the Father in me" does NOT mean "I am the Father and the Father is me."

[Concerned]

RIGHTWHALE WROTE: "Perhaps those who question the basic idea of evolution have a political agenda, and if so, they ought to be upfront about it because right now they simply appear to be irrational."

ONELIFETOGIVE RESPONDED: "Perhaps those who refuse to question the basic idea of evolution have a political agenda, and if so, they ought to be upfront about it because right now they simply appear to be irrational."

BINGO!

I remember growing up "learning" about evolution and that we "evolved" from lesser animals. I remember going to the zoo and seeing skulls of various "evolving" stages of apes and ape-like animals. I was convinced [actually brainwashed from an early age in school] that we DID evolve from lower animals.

Now, however, after having had children and seeing the developmental stages of them, and after having examined a lot of information about human and other animal development, I am convinced that humans DID NOT evolve from lower animals.

I am convinced that there IS a Supreme Being who created UNIQUELY DIFFERENT animals, although some can be similar in many ways. (For instance, animals mate and reproduce in a similar fashion, i.e. via male/female HETEROsexual---NOT HOMOsexual---union).

Different animals have their own UNIQUE DNA. A horse's DNA is different from a monkey's DNA, which is different from a dog's DNA, which is different from a HUMAN's DNA---from the MOMENT OF CONCEPTION!!!

SOMEBODY had to plan and figure all that out ahead of time!

The probability that there ISN'T a Supreme Being that figured out how to come up with all the zillions and zillions of DNA combinations---and keep them all straight---is so infinitely low that I have come to the following conclusion:

IT WOULD TAKE MORE FAITH TO BELIEVE THAT THERE ISN'T A SUPREME BEING THAN TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A SUPREME BEING!

[f.Christian]

Creation/God...REFORMATION(Judeo-Christianity)---secular-govt.-humanism/SCIENCE---CIVILIZATION!

Originally the word liberal meant social conservatives(no govt religion--none) who advocated growth and progress---mostly technological(knowledge being absolute/unchanging)based on law--reality... UNDER GOD---the nature of GOD/man/govt. does not change. These were the Classical liberals...founding fathers-PRINCIPLES---stable/SANE scientific reality/society---industrial progress...moral/social character-values(private/personal) GROWTH(limited NON-intrusive PC Govt/religion---schools)!

Evolution...Atheism-dehumanism---TYRANNY(pc/liberal/govt-religion/rhetoric)...

Then came the SPLIT SCHIZOPHRENIA/ZOMBIE/BRAVE-NWO1984 LIBERAL NEO-Soviet Darwin/ACLU America---the post-modern age of switch-flip-spin-DEFORMITY-cancer...Atheist secular materialists through ATHEISM/evolution CHANGED-REMOVED the foundations...demolished the wall(separation of state/religion)--trampled the TRUTH-GOD...built a satanic temple/SWAMP-MALARIA/RELIGION(cult of darwin-marx-satan) over them---REDACTED and made these absolutes subordinate--relative and calling/CHANGING all the... residuals---technology/science === TO evolution via schlock/sMUCK IDEOLOGY/lies/bias...to substantiate/justify their efforts--claims...social engineering--PC--atheism...anti-God/Truth RELIGION(USSC monopoly)--and declared a crusade/WAR--JIHAD--INTOLERANCE/TYRANNY(breaking the establishment clause)...against God--man--society/FREEDOM/LIBERTY/SCIENCE!!

[Aric2000]

Actually JS1138, the Wiccans have NO problem with Evolution, as a matter of fact, evolution fits into their worldview quite easily.

It's the Hindus, and the Muslims, and other monotheistic religions that will be bashing down the door on this one.

The IDr's are gonna be in for a heck of a shock if that door ever gets opened.

We might as well write off any and all Public school science departments as well, they will become totally unreliable for teaching actual science.

Sad, sad situation

[f.Christian]

To: f.Christian

Dakmar...

I took a few minutes to decipher that post, and I must say I agree with a lot of what you said.

fC...

These were the Classical liberals...founding fathers-PRINCIPLES---stable/SANE scientific reality/society---industrial progress...moral/social character-values(private/personal) GROWTH(limited NON-intrusive PC Govt/religion---schools)!

Dakmar...

Where you and I diverge is on the Evolution/Communism thing. You seem to view Darwin and evolution as the beginning of the end for enlighted, moral civilization, while I think Marx, class struggle, and the "dictatorship of the proletariat" are the true dangers.

God bless you, I think we both have a common enemy in the BRAVE-NWO.

452 posted on 9/7/02 8:54 PM Pacific by Dakmar

[RightWhale]

I remember going to the zoo and seeing skulls of various "evolving" stages of apes and ape-like animals.

In anthro class we met in the lab one time, or a couple of times. There they had plaster casts of some of the famous fossils, not the original, of course, but copies, and expensive. They were even colored to look like the originals. You can picture whatever you want when you hold one of these ancient skulls in your hand, but it does make you wonder more than a dry paragraph or a good National Geographic picture does about the skull. Like Macbeth, Alas! Poor Yorick, if only he had managed to fashion a spearpoint instead of a hand hammer, he might be with us still.

[whattajoke]

Isn't "brainwashed" a bit of a strong term? I mean, c'mon. Brainwashing occurs on a much lower scale... it's simply impossible to "brainwash" 99% of actual scientists, isn't it?

Your scientific terms like "Zillions and zillions" and your borrowed opinions like "IT WOULD TAKE MORE FAITH TO BELIEVE THAT THERE ISN'T A SUPREME BEING THAN TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A SUPREME BEING!" are very compelling, but hardly the stuff of science.

And yes, mammals reproduce through heterosexual sex, not homosexual sex. I'll agree with you on that point, however I fail to see how that is somehow an argument for a designer. Oops, I mean, "Designer."

I'll also agree that human dna is different from other animals'. "From conception" even. But again, I fail to see how that is somehow an argument for a designer. Oops, I mean, "Designer."

At any rate, your failure to be able to grasp the tenets of evolution hardly give enough reason for the world to discard a readily accepted fact of biology.

[Concerned]

SO9 WROTE: "And the parts of evolution that creationists are usually busy attacking are the parts that have been recognized by scientists as inadequate for 75 years and long ago updated."

DIMENSIO RESPONDED: "Actually, this is often used as a point of attack by creationists. Science, they say, is so inadequate that it must constantly revise itself to account for newly discovered data. Religion, on the other hand, remains the same no matter how much it is shown to be completely contrary to reality."

Good point!

[f.Christian]

Sounds like intelligent design vs evolution ... no competition !

Alas! Poor Yorick, if only he had managed to fashion a spearpoint (( ID )) instead of a hand hammer (( evo )) , he might be with us still.

The obituary of mindless unintelligent manmade evolution ...


science3000 ... designeduniverse.com --- architecture !

[whattajoke]

SO9 WROTE: "And the parts of evolution that creationists are usually busy attacking are the parts that have been recognized by scientists as inadequate for 75 years and long ago updated."
DIMENSIO RESPONDED: "Actually, this is often used as a point of attack by creationists. Science, they say, is so inadequate that it must constantly revise itself to account for newly discovered data. Religion, on the other hand, remains the same no matter how much it is shown to be completely contrary to reality."

CONCERNED CONCEDED: Good point!

WHATTAJOKE SCRATCHES HIS HEAD: Huh? I don't think you really agree with Junior, do you?

[whattajoke]

Ooops, I mean Dimensio, not Junior! Sorry.

[js1138]

I do believe that is your most visually stunning post ever.

[Lurking Libertarian]

Indeed, the American system of government only works when the people are moral along Christian lines. My favorite example:

".Sir William Blackstone (1723-1780), the father of American jurisprudence, said of the importance of defending the oath: "The belief of a future state of rewards and punishments, the entertaining just ideas of the main attributes of the Supreme Being, and a firm persuasion that He superintends and will finally compensate every action in human life (all revealed in the doctrines of our Savior, Christ), these are the grand foundations of all judicial oaths, which call God to witness the truth of those facts which perhaps may only be known to Him and the party attesting; all moral evidences, therefore, all confidence in human veracity, must be weakened by apostasy, and overthrown by total infidelity." - WorldNetDaily 2/11/99 Craig McMillan

The Blackstonian view of judicial oaths was explicitly rejected by the Founders of this country; every time the Constitution uses the word "oath" (including references to judicial oaths, oaths of office, etc.) it offers the alternative "or Affirmation," thus permitting judicial testimony and office-holding by people who do not believe in God or in a future state of rewards and punishments.

[f.Christian]

Nothing about science or God has changed or evolved -- ever ...

evolution is just a bunch of loose nuts - crap --- space junk ---

that floated off of the flight - plan (( design - intelligence )) !