Posted on 07/09/2003 12:08:32 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
I am very glad that America does not have, and is protected against ever having a state religion.
About half my family is Catholic, the rest Protestant. We all love and respect one another even though the two theologies cannot be reconciled.
On a previous thread I tried pointing out that Christ could have had twelve disciples with the same personality, but He chose not to. Likewise in Revelation, we see that Christ has several churches with different personalities.
The disciples and the churches agreed on the major points of faith but had disagreements on some of the interpretations. The fact that Christ did not intervene to settle the disputes indicates to me that He accepts our differences. If He accepts them, we ought to also.
On the previous thread, I tried to point out that, according to my Catholic family members, whatever the Pope says (in a particular place) is the same as if Christ Himself had said it. Thus the Pope is the vicar of Christ on earth and the tradition of the Church is on equal footing with Scripture. It is important for Protestants to understand the sincerity of this belief.
More to the point of this thread, when the Pope says that evolution is compatible with Catholic doctrine, it is taken as a holy determination in Catholic belief.
Likewise it is important for Protestants to understand that Catholic belief and faith is structured hierarchically. I recall in one of your posts you mentioned that theology ought to be left up to the Church and science to the Science Community. That is an indication of the Catholic faith as I understand it. You have faith in the human institutions. It is important for Protestants to understand the sincerity of that belief.
The reverse is true.
It is important for Catholics to understand the sincerity of Protestant belief. We have no faith in human institutions, our faith is in God alone, i.e. the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Those of us who are Christian Fundamentalists also aver that the Bible is authoritative and inerrant.
We Protestants confess a growing knowledge of the Word in our personal relationship with the Lord (Ephesians 1.) At the beginning of our walk, we can only handle the “milk” – but as we grow, we can handle the “meat.”
Our interpretations vary on the minutia such as the rapture – pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, none or some combination. Variances such as these are the cause of the so many denominations and, as in the case of the Baptists, local church variances as well.
But returning to the main point, since Christ Jesus accepted our differences, we ought to also.
They knew what religious persecution was all about, and they would have nothing to do with anything that smelled of government intervention in someones personal beliefs.
Specifically they objected that a Federal government should establish, mandate or sponser a particular Christian faith as the offical religion of these United States. This was repeated during the debates that led to the adoption of the text of the first amendment. It was later reinforced by Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists assuring them that there was no intention to subsidize other denominations. All of the Conventions attendees's respective States had laws on the books with religious qualifications for State office, both before the Constitution was drafted and long long after until around the time the 14th amendment was passed. The Federal government was involved in religious matters to some extent...passing a bill appropriating money to purchase and distribute Bibles to Indians was one such example of the government promoting Christianity yet not promoting a specific denomination.
I disagree with you on the fact that ALL of them were fundamentalists though, because some of them were not.
I said the Convention was packed with fundamentalists. It was. See above. Most of the attendees had held elective office in their respective States and had to proclaim their Christianity. I'm sure their were a few deists, CINOs, and a few closet atheists. There's no need to accuse me of making a quantificational fallacy when you only need ask for clarification.
And for a christian nation? I don't think so, try for a MORAL a d religious nation, and ALL religions teach morality. Christianity is but one of those.
Oh yes, a Christian nation. I could produce dozens and dozens of public quotes reflecting that intent by many of the men involved. The thought that Islam, Satanism, Wicca, Animism would somehow be considered on equal footing with Christianity at least by the States had never occurred to any of these men. At least I can't find it.
As I said, I couldn't care less what religion you are, as long as you respect my right to believe as I do.
I have no idea what you believe. If it's offensive to Christianity I have every right to oppose what you believe at every opportunity that presents itself. You're frightened of fundamentalists speaking out on topics such as this. I have no clue why. It is in our interest to get the Bible back into our public schools like it was for most of our nation's history. A book so revered by our founders that they could not imagine that it would be prohibited from our schools. A book which was used in every English class to teach reading.
I will respect yours, if you will respect mine, our morals are the same, it is how we get those morals that is different.
That's a huge presumption on your part. I have no idea how our morals compare. If they aren't based in Christianity, they're probably on the slippery slope to folly and sin, IMNSHO.
And this thread is about the teaching of ID as science, when it is NOT, teach it in philosophy class, MORE power to ya, teach it in a christian studies class, MORE power to you, but NOT in a science class.
Unfortunately the book is banned from our public school system entirely.
Words mean things, and science should be taught as science, and if you confuse science with faith, then science is not worth the theories it is made of.
Not it's not as clear cut as that.
Evolution is science, no amount of lying or obfiscation is going to change that, ID is NOT science, but if it is ever shown to be scientific in any way matter shape or form, then I might open my mind to it, but it is NOT even close at this point.
Darwinists, Environmentalists, and others writing public school textbooks assert moral claims. Pick up a modern grade school science book and read it. I have.
Mass marketing and publicity does NOT a theory make, being peer reviewed, published in scientific journals, making predicitons etc, make a scientific theory, and ID has not done ANY of these things.
God does not require nor solicit peer review. God created the world. God created Man. Period. It is unacceptable that the government would suppress this teaching in the public school system of a Christian nation. It's great to see we are in agreement that it should be taught in our schools. And it's better that its read and used in a number of classes, history, english, poetry, social studies and yes, even mentioned in science class.
Yeah, that's why they all laughed at Lammark. So, how much you paying for eggs up there in the Yukon?
As far as I am aware they are still laughing at Lamarck. Also, Lamarck's theory has been violently attacked by evolutionists who consider it an opposing theory to theirs. Since the discussion in question was regarding evolution whether Lamarck is or is not correct is pretty much irrelevant. However, if you have evidence (not rhetoric) regarding proofs of Lamarckism, I will be glad to hear them.
As to the eggs in the Yukon - it seems to me that if the price is high some intelligent designer will find a way to make money out of the situation and perhaps bring the price down. However, I strongly doubt that chickens are going to start flying up there to satisfy the needs of those there.
Praise God!!!
Care to explain how you came to this conclusion?
That is untoppable ... a new era is born free --- we have now left stalag science (( randumbness )) and entered the omega dimension zone3000 --- we will never be the same !
When I was watching the documentary about the prisoners of war from the German camps being liberated ... one GI looked for weeks trying to find the one guard who tortured him --- lucky for both of them he didn't succeed !
Free at last -- free !
science3000 ... designeduniverse.com --- intelligent too !
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