Potentially Historic Second Amendment Lawsuit Petitioned to Supreme Court (Silveira)

KeepAndBearArms.com ^ | July 3, 2003 | KeepAndBearArms.com

[KEVLAR]

How does that make it harder?

[MineralMan]

"Unfortunately, those of us who work the legislatures and courts to protect our rights, have to fight the damage caused by such yahoos before we can make progress..."

Sad, but true. And just when we're seeing _some_ progress, as with the Minnesota CCW law just passed.

[autoresponder]

One Supreme Court Justice once said "When the citzens of the United States lose respect for our decisions, the laws of our country will mean nothing".

Compare this statement to the rapidly growing 20%+ of those that have now withdrawn from paying income taxes.

When SCOTUS makes some more equal then others, those "preferred diversity" persons become invisible to those "less diverse".

You can never have "too much gun"!

[Chuckster]

If I were a gun grabber, I would start asking myself, when is the last time a SWAT team a crime?

What??? Speak up, I have artillery ears. I must have missed part of that sentence. d;^)

[MineralMan]

"I find your logic rather strange. If it is a right has God declared he is to take it from us? Because no mere mortal has the authority to take a right from me. I will remove any such person from the gene pool.
"

Has not that right already been taken from you, Crusader? How many laws will it take? Idle threats, IMO.

[MineralMan]

"When was the last time someone got away from a SWAT team surrounding them?
When was the last time a SWAT team got away when they were surrounded?"

Oh, very good. Now, how many folks in your squad, eh? So far, I've seen no SWAT temas surrounded, but I've seen a lot of SWAT teams surrounding houses with "caches" of firearms. So far, it's SWAT winning them all. I don't see any changes coming.

[autoresponder]

The obvious solution for the idiotic 10-cartridge magazine law is to carry 2 or more firearms at once.

Quicker then reloading, more dramatic effect on felons too!

Of the same caliber, easier with handguns then longarms.

Read your federal and state firearms laws and BATF regs.

See what years of arms are covered by law, which are exempt.

Purchase, transfer, private sales, shipment, carry.

I will not give you all the goodies here; let's just say loopholes abound and are written in stone...

[berserker]

Link to 9th Circuit appellate decision Silveira v. Lockyer (pdf format).

[You Gotta Be Kidding Me]

"One Supreme Court Justice once said "When the citzens of the United States lose respect for our decisions, the laws of our country will mean nothing".

He's wrong. The rulings will mean nothing and the law (Constitution) will mean everything.

[autoresponder]

Correct in your statement, BUT:

His quote refers to the American citizenry then losing respect for SCOTUS and all judiciary, then selectively ignoring any and all laws, as would suit them.

Otherwise all would become lefties, so to speak.......

[mvpel]

They talk a big game, about how they'll shoot gun-grabbing cops right between the eyes, blah blah blah, but they don't show up at NRA Members' Council meetings, they don't register to vote, and they alienate the vast middle ground to which we need to appeal.

[Chemist_Geek]

Anti-firearms-rights forces can be divided into two major categories. The first, and the smallest, are the virulently anti-gun limosuine liberals who are the ones most vilified here. They are the ones who want to have house-to-house searches, midnight raids, etc. They're the worst of the gun-grabbers, and fortunately they're also the fewest in number.

The second group, much more numerous, are those who aren't familiar with firearms. Most soccer-moms fall into this category; they just want to live in peace and quiet, and they think that banning guns will make their lives safer. Since they are not familiar with Bad Guys or firearms, that's not too outlandish a proposition to their minds.

Fortunately, they can be reached. If we gently educate the soft majority of anti-firearms-rights people then we are able to realize that responsible, reasonable gun owners aren't the source of their fears. Then, after being educated and realizing that, they'll no longer support foolish wastes of time like the Evil Black Rifle ban or oppose concealed carry laws. Michigan Governor Jenny Granholm was, while she was Attorney General, opposed to the (relatively new; enacted 2000) shall-issue CCW law. She recanted that position - she said that we CPL holders aren't dangerous like she thought we were. This doesn't mean she's no longer opposed to us, but she's seeing the light.

When the mouth-breathers show up, banging their shoes and shouting about "crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you" and so forth, that drives the soft anti-gunners into the arms of the hard anti-gunners. Those yahoos on the pro-rights side only hurt us by scaring the bejezesus out of the soft antis and hardening their hearts against us.

We don't hear it much in here on FR because this is a pretty good echo chamber, but amongst the general public gun owners and gun ownership don't have the best image. Yes, that's the anti-gun media at work, but those yahoos are giving them the ammunition! The virulently anti-gunners will ruthlessly exploit anything we let them. Let's not scare people off from at least leaving us alone, and at best becoming gun owners themselves.

[PatrioticAmerican]

One way or another, this issue needs to be decided.

[PatrioticAmerican]

"So far, it's SWAT winning them all. I don't see any changes coming."

that just goes to show how law abiding we as a people are. Corner us all and that would change.

[toothless]

The Kentucky state motto comes to mind...

http://homeschooling.about.com/library/blkymotto.htm

[Crusader21stCentury]

I have my weapons, so no it hasn't been taken. Because some idiot declares himself King and says my weapons are illegal means nothing. When that fool comes calling to enforce his lunacy I have no intention of staying baricaded in one place. I have resources available, and a certain amount of knowledge to use those resources. I most certainly will be consequential.

[mvpel]

That's true without a doubt, but ought we not stack the deck in our favor?

[MineralMan]

"Let's not scare people off from at least leaving us alone, and at best becoming gun owners themselves.

"

What you said. I've owned firearms since I was 12 years old, qualified Expert with the M-16 in the USAF, and have hunted all my life.

The "out of my cold, dead hands" folks scare the crap out of me. They alienate the very group of people we need to keep our firearms with their poisonous rhetoric.

It's not that group who are working to pass laws like the new CCW laws in Minnesota. They're actually doing nothing to preserve our RKBA. Nothing. Instead, they're managing to make a large group of citizens who don't usually think about firearms angry as heck and worried, too.

It's hard enough to educate non-owners without the rhetoric from the hard-liners.

Bottom line is that there aren't enough of those hard-liners to do much of anything. I don't see them showing up to defend folks who are being arrested with their "caches" of firearms. I don't see much of them at all, except to rant about some mythical "revolution."

They do not help the cause of firearms ownership in any way. Indeed, they harm that cause materially.

[no-s]

Perhaps you're forgetting the circumstances that led to the "shot heard round the world," i.e. gun confiscation...

No matter where we go in these United States, there is a governmental body willing to assert the second amendment is not what it says.

[Crusader21stCentury]

You apparently do not know what a right is. A God given right cannot be taken away. You keep describing it like a "Drivers License" where permission can be removed. That attitude shows you have already been sheared. I prefer to have every politician worry that 100,000 may sneak into Washington DC over night.