A Little Girl, a Big Stone, a Christian Boss

Israel National News ^ | 29 June 2003 | Tovia Singer

[dark_lord]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but as I recall God gave the land to the Abraham and the children of Abraham. And since the Arabs also claim Abraham as a forefather...

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty [1] ; walk before me and be blameless. 2 I will confirm my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers." 3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 "As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram [2] ; your name will be Abraham, [3] for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."

We can all argue about whether the Arabs worship the same God as the Jews and Christians...but they claim that they do, and that as descendants of Abraham that they have also inherited Canaan. Now you may argue that they are full of it, but if the Jews in Israel want to claim ownership over the land "because God gave it to them" as opposed to saying "we conquered it, its ours, and if you don't like it we'll kill you" like everyone else does...well then, they will just have to deal with competing claims of "yeah, God gave it to us too, so there, nyah!"

[dark_lord]

Get your economic boot of Israel's neck

I think that your position is rather overstated. Look here for a report on total foreign aid to Israel. You might quibble about some of the figures (like, has it really been a total of $91 billion from 1949 through 2000) but it really has been a lot.

[onyx]

Happy to see you're still in fine fettle! :-)

[Burkeman1]

I am going to stop responding to you after that post. Let me just say that I think you have some issues that need to be resolved.

[dark_lord]

I am defending neither their philosophy nor their religious beliefs. The question simply is: are the Arabs descendents of Abraham -- or not? If so, then the Jews have a problem; which is that if they base their claim to Israel on God promising it to them (as descendents of Abraham) then they have to deal with anyone else who makes the same claim. Personally, I think the Israelis should simply claim it is theirs by conquest and dare anyone to take it away from them. Advancing the claim that it is their because God gave it to them is where the problem comes from -- it gives the Arabs a counterclaim.

And don't put words in my mouth. If you want to respond to me, respond to the actual points I make, don't introduce irrelevencies or straw men.

[dark_lord]

Washington report is a Wahabi mouthpiece....And if you believe the Washington Report, you might as well just fly the muslim flag over the Statue Of liberty.

As it turns out, they generated that $91B number as follows: According to an October 27 Congressional Research Service (CRS) report, cumulative aid to Israel from 1949 through fiscal year (FY) 2000 was $81.38 billion. Then Shirl McArthur added these numbers: $4.28 billion from the DOD and $1.72 billion from interest accrued due to early aid disbursement. This comes to a total of $87.38 billion through September 30 of this year (the end of FY 2000). Add to this amount the $3.98 billion for FY 2001: This number includes $840 million in economic aid, $1.98 billion in military aid, $60 million for refugee resettlement, $250 million from the DOD budget, and $85 million in interest. The resulting grand total of the above calculations is $91.36 billion in aid to Israel through FY 2001.

Now, is the source a pro-palastinian source? I think yes. But are the numbers right? Well, they all came from US government sources. If you don't like the numbers, complain to the US government. If you don't trust an information source, then verify the data.

[gitmo]

As you know, what is now Jordan was part (i.e. most) of the land that was to be deeded to Israel. At the 11th hour, it was taken away from the Jewish people and given to the Palestinian arabs.

[gitmo]

If you read the UN documents creating the nation of Israel, it becomes obvious that the Palestinians are the Jewish nation. Not an arab group of people.

[MissAmericanPie]

Oh grow up.

[rmlew]

The Ishmaelites have 20+ countries including the 3/4 of Palestine East of teh Jordan River.
WE just want the remaining 1/4th in peace.

[rmlew]

BS report by Arabist magazine. (How much Saudi Bloodmoney do they get?)
They include repayed loans and loan guarantees with actual grants and then add interest to this.
This is economic babble.

[Burkeman1]

"WE just want the remaining 1/4th in peace."

Whose "we"?

[rmlew]

Jews in general.

[Burkeman1]

Ah. I thought "we" might mean Americans. When Buchanan or other Paleo conservative "Anti Semites" talk about the Jewish American Israeli Amen corner then I expect you will keep quiet. The Irish Americans got over their dual loyalty issues and I suggest Jewish Americans do the same.

[Al Simmons]

Whatever Biblical claim to Israeli land the Phillistines might have had under the passage you cited was FORFEITED when their descendants abandones worshipping the one true God in favor of a bloodthirsty pagan Moon-god deity.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Al