America's Nouveaux Tech Poor

WashTech News ^ | June 27, 2003 | David Beckman

[verity]

Explain to me the 'sense of fairness'

I somehow doubt that fairness enters into any businessman's decision making.

[Jason_b]

"The irony is that while Indian workers make $12 an hour (the equivalent, an Indian tech worker tells me, to about $40 U.S. dollars) and considers that a living wage,.."

Read that again and again until it sinks in.

$12USD in India equals $40USD in the U.S.????

That is most interesting! The purchasing power of our currency varies with geography. In India, the $USD is stronger than it is here. Why might that be? Money is credit, and money enters the economy where the banks are when loans are made. Most $USD loans originate in the US when J6P gets a home equity loan or a car loan, or some other loan. Also when businesses borrow for business purposes. It is obvious how easy it is to borrow money, to go into debt. Checked the interest rates lately? Checked the national debt lately? Checked consumer debt levels lately? How much "equity" was extracted from homes in the last three years and converted into interest bearing debt? So America is like a fountain of US dollars. For some reason, those dollars are in demand in foreign countries by foreign workers who view 12 of them the same way our people locally view 40 of them. Neglecting living conditions and infrastructure for a moment, you could still make the case that the differential in value is analagous to the situation where the man who lives near a source of clean water is not as careful to conserve it as those who live far away from the source. Hence, the man will wash his car while those further away exercise water conservation measures. If a source of water were suddenly discovered in that distant land so that people didn't need to come with containers to get it from the source near our proverbial man, you would find that they themselves relax their conservation efforts in step with their newfound abundance. The more they have, the more uses they'll find for it that would once have been considered wasteful.

Since we live on top of the dollar well, we value the dollars flowing from it less than those in foreign lands who have accepted it as money but who live in distant lands. That is why we demand 40 of them for a unit of work of a certain kind, but those far away in other countries are happy with 12 of them.

It might be safe to say that 12 will buy there what 40 will buy here simply because they are downstream where it is dry, and here, we are up to our necks in dollars.

I believe the name for this process is "exporting inflation," and "importing deflation." We are exporting inflation to India, and India is exporting defation to us. They experience their inflation as we did our previous boom, low or lessening unemployment, feelings of hope and optimism, increasing prosperity, increasing prices as the the prices of commodities go up in dollars, which progressively lose their value over time as more arrive on the scene.

Meanwhile we experience our deflation as increasing permanent unemployment or underemployment, a feeling of decreasing prosperity, prices of luxuries dropping as prices of necessities increase, feelings of fear and pessimism about the future, business failures, mortgage foreclosures, personal bankruptcies, a shift in careers as "your services are no longer needed," to whatever work one can get for whatever wage to pay a bill.

Isn't it possible that our problem comes the fact that our government creates inflation? The reason the Indians appear to be "cheap" labor is not because they are cheap and allow themselves to be exploited, but it is because our dollars are indeed cheap here, but strong over there. This creates the opportunity for international companies to take cheap dollars they obtained here probably through borrowing from a bank, or selling bonds, or profits from sales, and transfer them overseas where they are spent to produce things that are consumed here. But they are not spent there as freely as they are here. They are held back somewhat. Instead of paying them $40, we pay them $12. There is an advantage to having access to a source of money where money is cheap, so that you can take it and spend it where money is dear, but our whole system is based on this dynamic and it is what is responsible for the deflationary effects (rising prices of energy and other important things like medical notwithstanding) we experience here. I think you will find the more inflation there is out of the dollar well that is the Federal Reserve, the more pronounced the problem will become. Making our dollar weaker here will only serve to encourage internationals to take the dollars and spend them overseas where the dollar is stronger for geographical reasons...thus, making foreigners busy, while Americans grow more idle and suffer deflationary effect.

But what if there were something that was valued equally by US citizens and Indians and generally well distributed throughout the world? Then the amount of that substance that the Indian would be pleased to accept for a given service should be equal to the amount of that same substance that a U.S. citizen would be pleased to accept for providing the same service. The world at one time used such a substance as money. It is called gold.

If our money was gold (and silver for small change) instead of debt, then our government could not engage in inflation by "monetary policy" and deficit spending. And then by not engaging in inflation, it could not export inflation to other countries and import deflation to us. As long as Americans continue to accept the US government's unconstitutional practice of using things other than precious metals as symbols of value, i.e. money, then you can expect these sorts of dislocations to continue.

And as long as the government tries to fight the effects of deflation here by increasing inflation here, the dollar will only look stronger "over there" and labor look more attractive "over there," and attract business away from here at a faster rate.

This is the proverbial vicious cycle unfolding before your eyes.

[oceanview]

by 2008, if current trend continues, this class of displaced workers (its not just IT, its medical techs, accounting, human resources, any job that can be done by someone in front of a computer is targeted for offshoring) will be what puts Hillary into the presidency. These middle class private sector workers should mostly be republicans. Offshore their jobs and ruin their lives, and they will be looking for government jobs and programs to backfill what they've lost (free health care, etc). And guess who is going to be right their promising them that.

All you folks who poo-poo this issue, you'll be paying the increased taxes to support the programs needs to help these displaced workers.

[StatesEnemy]

I somehow doubt that fairness enters into any businessman's decision making.

Fine. But if your 'decision making' includes undercutting the American standard of living by offshoring your laborforce - you are no longer an American company and should be forced to pay tariffs to offset the 'protection' and 'profit margin' garnered by participating in the US marketplace.

[StatesEnemy]

If our money was gold

If wishes were horses...
If I only had a brain...
If a face could launch a thousand ships, then why can't I see you?

If, If, If

[Veracious Poet]

"Fine. But if your 'decision making' includes undercutting the American standard of living by offshoring your laborforce - you are no longer an American company and should be forced to pay tariffs to offset the 'protection' and 'profit margin' garnered by participating in the US marketplace."

That would be the "Constitutional" solution to the problem, coercing the vampires to do business in the Good Ol' USA, but that is not the "Free-Trade" way now, is it?

BTW, the tech-boom of the 90s was a genuine boom that should have continued into this decade and possibly the next, but the investment banking elite and the general culture of corporate greed super-inflated the prices to make quick profits, most of which were taken to secret, off-shore bank accounts for safekeeping.

I have a friend who is a lead analyst for Nomura Securities, and a couple of days after 9-11 we got together and had a talk about what see as REALLY going on with the economy in America.

In both of our opinions and experiences, the underwriters and analysts are in cahoots with the investment bankers and are playing a game with the investment community in that it is a well known fact that IPOs of common stock yield positive short-run raw returns and negative long-run market-adjusted returns.

In short, America was played for the sucker.

The SEC is a patsy in the whole process, crying foul every once in awhile and fining the syndicate pennies on the dollar, in a show to appease the American public.

The investment community is a fraud and sham, designed to artificially inflate and extract as much money as possible from new technologies, much in the same way as the Federal Reserve was created to insure infinite national debt.

Unless Americans choose wake-up and REALLY care about the direction their country is headed in, and put an end to supporting the two-party system that sustains the cycle of corruption, we will never again see the type of America we grew up in...one where AMERICANS have ANY hope of financial security, business opportunity and REAL community.

[MonroeDNA]

[MonroeDNA]

Go to

http://www.techsunite.org/news/techind/h1breforms.cfm

From their site:

Prepared by the Department for Professional Employees, AFL-CIO, in coordination with the Communications Workers of America and numerous other international unions.

_________________

Please go away with your union BS.

[MonroeDNA]

More, of your hidden agenda, from the site:

Possible Reforms:

Devise labor market test that ties visa approval to local labor market conditions.
Reduce number of available H-1B visas from current level of 195,000 per annum to 1998 level of 65,000
Eliminate exemption for educational institutions.
Condition employer eligibility to petition for H-1B visas on their ability to demonstrate that, over the previous year, they
increased the number of full time equivalent U.S. workers;
increased the total amount of wages paid to their U.S. workers, and;
increased the average wages paid to their American workers.
Impose more meaningful/verifiable requirements that all H-1B employers (not just H-1B impacted) make good faith efforts to recruit in the U.S. and that they have not laid off workers to make room for guest workers.
Limit number of guest workers in any one firm, to a set percentage of the firm's workforce.

___________________________________

Unions are Marxist.

[ProudEagle]

bump for later

[MonroeDNA]

"We've been sold out by greedy multi-corps who use the US military for protection and then screws the US citizens. "

Perhaps workers of the world should unite?

[MonroeDNA]

"BTW, the tech-boom of the 90s was a genuine boom that should have continued into this decade and possibly the next, but the investment banking elite and the general culture of corporate greed super-inflated the prices to make quick profits, most of which were taken to secret, off-shore bank accounts for safekeeping. "

Yes, those durn "Greedy Corporations" are intent on squashing the "little-folk."

EEEEvil Capitalism is denying workers from getting their fair share.

[JoeSchem]

I am not without compassion for those who are unemployed and whose jobs are being sent overseas. But people must accept that "new reality" and move on.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but something is strange when highly-experienced American tech writers are working in delis for $8/hr while tech writing jobs are going to India for $12/hr. When the author muses about the priorities of big business, he's not questioning their patriotism, he's questioning their profit motive.

I have run into this same kind of discrimination myself, losing jobs whose very 'foreignness' is regarded as a kind of favorable attribute without paying attention to actual performance. And I'd like to know why.

[MonroeDNA]

It's the jooooooos!

[toothless]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/dotcon/

[MissTex]

Start thinking outside of the box. Stop waiting for a company to hire you. You've got Internet skills, try Internet marketing. There are tons of affiliate programs. Do some research, talk to people. It may not get you the salary you've had in the past, initially, but it's better than waiting for an employer to call back -- we all recognize that in this economic climate a job callback may not happen anytime soon.

[pyx]

I have THIRTY YEARS in the industry. You give him that last bit of code without having a CERTIFIED CHECK in your hand, you can kiss your code and your @$$ goodbye.

[q_an_a]

Someone who can write can find a job in the medical industry and they are not hurting for jobs. It may take 3 years to go from starting out to making a good living, but 3 years is not forever.

The 61 year old former Nam officer that is a different story. Too many parts that are unexplained to know what caused a disabled man to be working without help either from the VA, Boeing or the State of Washington. Too many unknows. Say a prayer.

[Veracious Poet]

Yes, those durn "Greedy Corporations" are intent on squashing the "little-folk."

Dismissing my statement as an attack on corporations in general is akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

My statement, "general culture of corporate greed", was more directed at the Ivy League educated corporate executives that have been indoctrinated into a system that tells them "greed is good".

Unbridled capitalism is ruining our country (Enron comes to mind) and if you can't see that, I have some penny stocks to sell you at $200 a share. ;-)

[Veracious Poet]

"It's the jooooooos!"

Typical internet spam...

In case you didn't know this, the groups I berated include members of all groups...religious, racial and of course include all sexual orientations.

Nice try at smearing me genious, why don't you try a logical argument to defend the "greed is good" mentality I am reviling.