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It's the Economy Stupid!
Original | 06/23/03 | Robert Wolf

Posted on 06/24/2003 7:34:45 PM PDT by aynfan

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1 posted on 06/24/2003 7:34:45 PM PDT by aynfan
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To: aynfan
Ping
2 posted on 06/24/2003 7:41:43 PM PDT by Carbonsteel
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To: aynfan
Excellent post and article.
3 posted on 06/24/2003 7:45:02 PM PDT by xrp
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To: aynfan
Big Ping.
4 posted on 06/24/2003 7:58:51 PM PDT by thedugal (Someone ping me when the shootin' starts...)
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To: aynfan
Common Wisdom: Robin Hood stole from the rich to give to the poor.

Sadly, an half correct but mostly wrong belief. In the stories of Robin Hood, he mostly robbed the sheriff's men of the tax monies which they had collected from the poor by over taxing them. He would take the ill gotten tax money and return it those who had been taxed, only occasionaly, robbing from a noble, and usually not much as nobles didn't carry a trunk of there fortune with them.

Yes I know Robin Hood wasn't real, and I know somone out there is going to call me a geek. I can't help it, I used to love the story when I was a kid.

5 posted on 06/24/2003 8:29:47 PM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: Willie Green
You may want to see this post, I hope it doesn't give you a coronary.
6 posted on 06/24/2003 8:31:32 PM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: Sonny M
Yes I know Robin Hood wasn't real . . .

Now's a fine time to find that out.

7 posted on 06/24/2003 8:31:44 PM PDT by mikeb704
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To: Sonny M; aynfan
You may want to see this post, I hope it doesn't give you a coronary.

Why?
It's obvious the author doesn't have the slightest idea what he's talking about.
Either that or just making up a pile of nonsense to support his idiotic thesis.
Take the following statement for example:

"The truth: U.S. manufacturers invest no more than $2 billion a year in Mexico, and even less in China."

LOL!
$2 billion is a drop in the bucket of what's being invested in China.
Heck, I can cite references exceeding that with just a few links:
Motorola Boosts China Investment ($6.6 Billion/5 years = $1.32 Billion per year)
Microsoft says to invest $750 million in China (Another 3/4 Billion)
Corning (1/4 Billion) Invests In China (Closes US HiTech Plant, Sell-Out Of USA To Enemy Continues)

Does the author think that Motorola, Microsoft and Corning are the only 3 companies investing in China?
What about Boeing? or GE?

Do me a favor, Sonny. Don't waste my time with this drivel.

8 posted on 06/24/2003 8:58:44 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: aynfan
Wow. Thank you for the concise and stimulating article.
9 posted on 06/24/2003 8:58:48 PM PDT by manic4organic (An organic conservative)
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To: Willie Green
Willie,

The economy is fine and will remain robust until I finally lose my job/business. Until then I will stick my head in the dirt and ignore those nasty rumors started by the many millions of victims.

Now all we have to do is to find a way to pursuade those who have lost jobs and wages that they are actually doing much better then they were in the 1990s. That any hardships they believe they are facing are simply a misinterpretation of their current state of prosperity.

Wasn't there a President Bush who was tossed out on his tail for trying the same thing? Time will tell. Until then, let there be spin.
10 posted on 06/24/2003 9:13:44 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Willie Green
Do me a favor, Sonny. Don't waste my time with this drivel.

Hey, I saw some things here that I thought you could debunk, but if you want to act like a bitter sourpuss so be it. I knew some of this was wrong, you usually have the links and know this.

I didn't realize you are actually this angry and bitter, I'll make sure not to make any contact with you in the future.

11 posted on 06/24/2003 9:15:05 PM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: Sonny M
I didn't realize you are actually this angry and bitter,

Why shouldn't I be?
I live in a nation where a tyrannical government is deliberately undermining the economic prosperity of its own Middle Class.
The Zoellick/Bush Administration view the American People merely as another market to plunder: bury the consumers (and taxpayers) in debt, knock wages and benefits down to the global subsistance level.

Does THAT sound like the "Land of Opportunity" to you???

12 posted on 06/24/2003 9:42:07 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: Sonny M
Here are some more accurate figures as to what U.S. companies are investing in China and Mexico:

By the end of 2002, China has approved 37821 U.S-invested companies, with contractual volume of 78 billion USD, making U.S. the biggest FDI inflows of China. U.S. investment not only involves in manufacture industries , but also in tertiary industry.
Meanwhile, Chinese investment in U.S. is also very active. At present, near 1000 Chinese companies including stated-owned and private companies have been setting up in the U.S. with a total value of 1 billion. (source)
 
U.S. firms are major investors in China and in 1998 actual U.S. investment in China rose to almost $4 billion,(source)
 
During the 1995-7 period, U.S. direct investment in Mexico grew by 27%, and in 2000 nearly $9 billion of the approximately $13.2 billion of foreign investment that entered Mexico came from U.S. corporations (source)

13 posted on 06/24/2003 10:17:45 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: Willie Green
Does THAT sound like the "Land of Opportunity" to you???

No, it does not. I'm not some free trade zeolot. Personally, I think there's more blame to go around on this. We are overly regulated, so when some country offers slave labor, companies jump at it. Its not right nor fair, to ask americans to compete with what is essentially slaves, even worse, because we over regulate our industries, they naturally leave for where there is less regulation. Instead of everyone jumping for free trade, maybe we should also consider deregulation. I also would like to see tax breaks and incentives for companies to do there business here.

Another problem is pure selfishness and greed. I work in real estate, most of the people I know do not work in manufacturing. They simply want to buy everything at the cheapest price. If somone loses there job to china so they can get a cheaper shirt, then there attitude is so be it. Though anyone that has ever heard of Nike, can shoot holes in that line of thought. Alot of people will justify it by saying, well, it helps create sales jobs. The guy who sells me my suits doesn't care where anything is made as long as he gets his commishon.

I think free trade can work, but only, and this is a big if, and it has not been addressed yet, if we have a level playing field. We do not have a level playing field, we pretty much encourage companies to move there businesses overseas or south of the border.

What I can't understand is why you wanted to lash out at me, usually I agree with you on most issues. I knew you could correct some of the stuff in the article, instead you chose to be hostile.

14 posted on 06/24/2003 10:32:58 PM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: Sonny M
What I can't understand is why you wanted to lash out at me, usually I agree with you on most issues. I knew you could correct some of the stuff in the article, instead you chose to be hostile.

My apologies. Sometimes I get grumpy refuting the same convoluted bilge over and over again. My disgust shouldn't have been directed at you. I just wasn't much in the mood for wading through the tripe presented in this article.

15 posted on 06/24/2003 11:10:12 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: Willie Green
"My apologies. Sometimes I get grumpy refuting the same convoluted bilge over and over again. My disgust shouldn't have been directed at you. I just wasn't much in the mood for wading through the tripe presented in this article."

Obviously you are stressed out from counting all the blessings of modern life, Willie. You need to take a wallk with Lazamataz and listen to the "buzzin' of the bees in the cigarette trees by the soda water fountain" and take a drink from "the lemonade springs where the bluebird sings at the big rock candy mountain". Then we can all go have some free bubble up and rainbow stew.
Just keep repeating, "the economy is great, the economy is great, we will all get rich by writing software programs, it really is better to let the Chinese do all our manufacturing". Immigrants only take jobs Americans don't want, etc. etc.
I certainly don't envy the young these days!


16 posted on 06/25/2003 8:16:49 AM PDT by RipSawyer (Mercy on a pore boy lemme have a dollar bill!)
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To: Willie Green
Your figures come from the Interhemispheric Resource Center (IRC), an anarchy group very highly praised by Noam Chomsky.
17 posted on 06/25/2003 4:27:34 PM PDT by aynfan
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To: aynfan
My figures come from 3 different sources, including the U.S. Department of Commerce.
It'd probably be pretty easy to come up with a couple dozen additional sources to refute the inaccurate bilge the author of this article pulled out of his ass.
Why don't you try doing a little research on the subject rather than trying to defend the indefensible? You might actually learn something.
18 posted on 06/25/2003 5:00:08 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: Willie Green
Your other sources were from Socialist organizations as well,

The Consulate General of The People's Republic of China in Los Angeles

Industry Canada a government sponsored site.

I'll take CAYOs figures over these any day.
19 posted on 06/25/2003 7:40:25 PM PDT by aynfan
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To: Sonny M
Isn't that what I wrote, that it was the government he stole from?
20 posted on 06/25/2003 7:41:49 PM PDT by aynfan
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