What Goes Around Comes Around - The Only Clear Winner in This SCO Versus IBM Case is Microsoft

PBS ^ | JUNE 19, 2003 | Robert X. Cringely

[Golden Eagle]

but JAVA=Vendor Lock-in just as much as Windows does.

Not to mention a US product. Harr rambles incoherently, nowing little of what he speaks, all the while claiming dominance of the discussion.

[Dominic Harr]

They can change it at their will and they can force all current implementations to update or lose their license. If Java was a standard as TCP/IP, then yes I'd agree, but JAVA=Vendor Lock-in just as much as Windows does.

Psssst . . .

Look it up. You won't believe me, so I won't even try.

Java *is* a standard. Sun does *not* control it. The 'Java Community Process' does.

[for-q-clinton]

Yeah, they probably got some pretty good 'tools' we can use, too.

Yep, harr just freepmailed me. He confirmed a burning cross is just a tool.

[Dominic Harr]

It's also interesting, that's twice you said I made your point for you, then you turned out to be miserably wrong.

I'm beginning to sense a pattern.

[for-q-clinton]

Java *is* a standard. Sun does *not* control it. The 'Java Community Process' does.

Is that your final answer? {hint: you may want to rethink who truly controls java}

[Dominic Harr]

Is that your final answer? {hint: you may want to rethink who truly controls java}

*barely supresses laugh*

The Java Community Process is the way the Java platform evolves. It is an organization of Java developers and licensees who work together in a well-defined process to develop and constantly improve the platform's specifications, reference implementations, and technology compatibility kits.

*Chuckle* *Guffaw*

[for-q-clinton]

http://www.jcp.org/en/participation/membership

Participation as a Member requires you or your organization to sign the Java Specification Participation Agreement (JSPA). The JSPA is a one-year, renewable agreement between you and Sun Microsystems, Inc

*Chuckle* *Guffaw*

[for-q-clinton]

There's more, but I'm waiting to bait you in a bit more.

{Hint: a Microsoft sanctioned user's group} {Hint: He who controls the most shares}

[Dominic Harr]

Participation as a Member requires you or your organization to sign the Java Specification Participation Agreement (JSPA). The JSPA is a one-year, renewable agreement between you and Sun Microsystems, Inc

That bears repeating.

That's the 'Java Community Process', developers deciding the direction a language should take, not a company.

Sun has opened control of Java up to the community of developers. They no longer control it themselves.

[for-q-clinton]

Hey Harr...what's at the bottom of this page?

http://www.jcp.org/en/participation/membership

Why that wouldn't be the sun logo and wait...who's paying for all this? Is it IBM? Microsoft? No wait it tells me on the bottom of that page:

Site sponsored and powered by Sun Microsystems

Copyright © 1995-2003. All Rights Reserved.

[Dominic Harr]

Oh, please post more like that.

I'd love it.

[for-q-clinton]

Sun has opened control of Java up to the community of developers. They no longer control it themselves.

Yeah, Right! And I give my 7 year old son freedom to do whatever he wants as long as I agree with it.

[Dominic Harr]

Sun owns the rights to Java.

They have released control of it to the 'Java Community Process'.

If you want to work with a language controlled by developers, use Java.

[Dominic Harr]

Java is controlled by the developers in the 'Java Community Process'.

.NET is controlled by . . . a marketing machine who just raised prices on it's customers.

The choice is yours.

[Golden Eagle]

Nice link. Harr down in flames, repeateadly and without fail.

[Golden Eagle]

The choice is yours.

And we'll be taking none of your snake oil, thank you.

[for-q-clinton]

From javaworld (A pro-java source):

Not everyone in the Java community is as happy as Sun is with the JCP, however. Many small developers, and even some large companies, consider the process neither open nor vendor neutral. Organizations wishing to participate in the JCP must pay annual fees to Sun. Only then can they provide experts to the JCP and actively shape a specification.

[Dominic Harr]

And we'll be taking none of your snake oil, thank you.

Oh, I don't know -- the buzz now is that study that showed that 1/2 of all people migrating from VB are moving to Java and not VB.NET. Java is the standard, and growing.

Java is just now mature, and it's really beginning to flex.

[Golden Eagle]

Organizations wishing to participate in the JCP must pay annual fees to Sun.

I'd say that's one hell of a stipulation for Harr and his free software budies, what daya think?

[for-q-clinton]

They have released control of it to the 'Java Community Process'.

So let me get this straight. Sun released control to an organization which they control? Also are you sure there's no escape clause in there? Like Sun can do whatever they like and the board is only making recommendations to Sun.