Time to face facts: Gays gain victory

Immorality is a symptom. It is not the 'cause.' Other symptoms being tolerance(the inability to say yes or no, to take a stand); equality, debate, discussion, different points of view, etc.

How does Andrew feel about polygamy, bigamy or the platonic marriage of mother and sister, daughter and brother, three friends or an entire commune?

Jonah Goldberg may have quit the fight but I can tell you that out here in the woods of Ct, there is minimal support for homosexual "marriage".

If states or SCOTUS sanction homosexual "marriage" the equal protection clause would open that door up for any couple or group who care to follow.

You're my best friend here and I know we disagree but I'll be battling to the bitter end, one way or the other.

Sullivan opposes marriage for the other categories you mention.

This is one of those very personal decisions. Few will change their mind on it, particularly at our age, although I must admit that I did change mine in recent years.

Am I being punished for finding the "Will & Grace" show stomach-churning?
(Laugh-tracks are inexcusable, too.)

Overheard on talk radio here in Los Angeles:
Q: What's the easiest way for a young adult to let friends and family know s/he is gay?
A: "Mom, Dad, I...uh...want to go to Hollywood to write situation comedies for
a major television network."

Note to self: get that "Exit Only" tattoo real soon.

LOL! I remember hearing somebody mention that phrase in the media, but can't remember who it was.

Just speaking for myself, I'm sharing the Senator Russ Feingold as Grand Inquisitor
story with as many friends/family as possible.
Just as Osama bin Laden let me know on 9-11-2001 that civilized people were
now locked in a Texas-Steel-Cage-Death Match with a lot of the Islamic world,
Senator Feingold let me know that for all their "pro-choice" rhetoric...
the only "choice" Democrats can tolerate is when all people bend the knee and
loving embrace slicing/dicing/Julienne-frying fetuses and to at least enjoying the
insertion of...OK, I won't go there in the interests of good taste.

Thanks to Feingold, I realize that even thinking "we'll go to
Disney World two weeks later for personal reasons" is a thought crime, I see that what
I told a gay co-worker has come true.

MANY more people will avoid any and all social and work contact with gays...
not because they are bigoted, but because they just don't want to be persecuted
for expressing even inconsequential personal opinion.

First, I don't agree with the premise of this article at all, they certainly have not "won" - they've won a victory in a completely ultra-leftist, socialist state. That's hardly saying anything.

All that being said, we must continue to fight against their agenda here, and we must never give in or conceed one inch of the moral high ground to these filthy deviant, degenerates. Ever.

For Goldberg to publish this is obscene. Not only is it untrue, it is also ammunition for them. Another blunder from Goldberg and the Neo-cons.

And let me tell you, if they do win, here, then NAMBLA will be the next thing they try to legitamize, and "Man boy love" and pedophilia will be the next taboo the deviants try to overcome. They're already starting (follow the bouncing ball; first the psychiatric societies remove "homosexuality" from the list of mental disorders, in the 1970's and now look where we're at. The APA is now discussing removing pedophilia from the list of mental disorders...this is all part of a well orchestrated, and timed, plan...and when they do remove it from the list of mental disorders (this will absolutely happen), you will see an all out push over the next decade to "understand" (at first) and then "legitamize" pedophilia...and it will be the same for each and every other sexual deviancy; bestiality, necrophilia...you name it, they will push to legitamize it).

Thirty years ago if you told someone that homosexuality would be legitamized and gays would be married, etc, you would have been told you were crazy, and would have been laughed out of the discussion. So it goes with the pedophilia taboo. Sure, right now the thought of pedophilia or other taboos being "legitamized" sounds equally crazy. Watch. Wait. And mark my words.

If we ever conceed the battle to the queer lobby, then it's going to get so bad you won't believe it; pedophilia, bestiality...it'll be a full court press to overcome every other sexual taboo (which has been their goal from the beginning, actually) in society. You won't be able to let your children out the door.

I came across this article the other day and decided not to publish it, because it's such an inherently false argument. The insinuation is that gays have achieved the victory that African-Americans or Hispanics have through public opinion change and relevant legislation.

But this is simply not true - the gays haven't won the battle yet - not by a long shot. Consider the Texas government that, with overwhelming bipartisan support, outlawed both homosexual marriages and civil unions in the nation's second largest state. What about the 67% of Nevadans who last November outlawed same-sex marriages in their state, (which is internationally renowned as a run away and get-married-quick state)? How about the USSC ruling in June 2000 that constitutionally protected the Boy Scouts from having to accept homosexuals in their organisation. And President Bush, for all the pro-homosexual allegations he's received from the right, has done little or nothing to promote the homosexual agenda (ever heard of Bill Pryor, Timothy Tymkovich or Jay Bybee, to mention a few?)

And can't you just see those pro-homosexual laws oozing out of Capitol Hill these days? Why do you think there's so much emphasis on the courts, rather than through legislation? Because, simply put, most lawmakers are unwilling to make these changes. Take hate crime protection and job discrimination protection. See how time and again it's stalled in Congress, either through filibuster or through downright Republican (and sometimes Democratic) refusal to pass such legislation.

Yes, the homosexuals have been racheting up some significant court victories on rights and what have you, but they still haven't won over the hearts and minds of the American people, who remain very uncomfortable about homosexuals and their behaviour. Many national surveys on homosexuality are skewed by the Northeast which holds very untraditional views on the subject. For instance, the most recent survey on homosexuality was released by Quinnipiac University which found that, by a margin of 58%-31%, Americans regarded homosexual behaviour as morally wrong. Yet, only 44% of Northeasterners felt this way compared to 66%-25% for Southerners, 60%-28% of Midwesterners and 56%-32% of Westerners. Similarly, by a margin of 50%-38%, Americans felt that homosexual behaviour between 2 consenting adults should be legal. However, 63% of Northeasterners were of this opinion, compared to only 46% of Southerners and 41% of Midwesterners (a plurality of Midwesterners felt that it should be illegal). It's important to note that the 2 most politically potent regions of the country are now the South and the Midwest. Clearly, these remain the two most unhospitable regions of the country for pro-homosexual laws.

Yes, gays have a long way to go before they've 'won'.

You and Goldberg are claiming victory prematurely. Goldberg has already advocated for gay legislation. That's why he's so willing to cave to your whims. He would never say "Leahy has already won, let's just ask him for magnanimity..." This is an idiotic column.

But I'm sure it will make for pleasant dreams from your political allies for a while anyway.

Some more polls are available here. There apparently is a major swing of opinion between gay marriages and civil unions.

Do you think that society has a noble calling to bash fat people, girls who are too tall, the kid whose parents buy him paisley shirts from Goodwill, or people with last names that sound like curse words?

This is the strangest justification yet for opposition to gay people, and on FR, that's saying quite a lot.

Your reply is bizarre. I didn't say society should bash anyone, including gays. I also was merely being descriptive of the fact that high school age kids still bash gays in their ordinary language, despite all the p-c pro-gay education they've received.

I was very clear my own preference is for tolerance - live and let live. I object to gay marriage, on religious grounds. As to the civil aspects, e.g. some sort of civil union to deal with matters of property, taxation, inheritance, etc., I leave it up to each state: states in which a majority of the population favor such legislation can enact it, states in which the citizens do not support such legislation will not. That works for me.