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The Evolving Peppered Moth Gains a Furry Counterpart
NY Times ^ | 6-17-03 | CAROL KAESUK YOON

Posted on 06/17/2003 7:05:07 PM PDT by Pharmboy

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To: exDemMom
Malaria is pretty bad. But I know people who live with frequent flare-ups of malaria, and they are in no particular danger of anything worse than some temporary discomforts and weakness.

On the other hand, sickle-cell anemia is worse than you may realize. It cripples and kills people.

141 posted on 06/19/2003 11:24:19 PM PDT by the_doc
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To: razorbak
Do you have any intelligent comments to offer, or are you just going to copy mindless satire based upon strawmen without proper attribution?
142 posted on 06/19/2003 11:26:20 PM PDT by Dimensio (Sometimes I doubt your committment to Sparkle Motion!)
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To: VadeRetro
LOL!
143 posted on 06/19/2003 11:26:35 PM PDT by the_doc
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To: gore3000
It is not false, otherwise the phony 'scientist' that pasted them up would not have had a need to commit a fraud, he could just have photographed them any time.

LOL, are you saying that peppered moths change color when they die? Because that's the only way that would be relevant.

It is not irrelevant, because the moths are very hard to see if they perch in the branches of the trees and the coloring would not matter very much in such cases. So you are wrong on both counts.

O...M...G... <gracie voice>Well sure: If it's hard for humans to see them way up there in the branches of trees, then it must be just as hard for birds to see them too, in which case their color is irrelevant!</gracie voice> Um, or are you saying that peppered moths were predated upon by humans???

Either way: Oh ... mah ... GAWD!!!

144 posted on 06/20/2003 1:07:30 AM PDT by jennyp (http://crevo.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: razorbak
" .....scarcely a single point is discussed in this volume on which the facts cannot be adduced, often apparently leading to conclusions directly opposite to those at which I arrived".

This is science, and this is precisely why he was so brilliant. Next time you need a biologic advance to save your life, refuse it--if you dare.

Best,
PB

145 posted on 06/20/2003 3:05:32 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to...)
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PLACEMARKER
146 posted on 06/20/2003 3:52:27 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (When rationality is outlawed, only outlaws will be rational.)
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To: Aric2000
You can't be serious, speciation? what the hell?

They never claimed speciation, it was MICROEVOLUTION!!

Whatever they claimed it was a lie and a fraud. There was no mutation, at most there was a change in the amount of spotted moths over white moths - but we can't be sure because the so called 'scientist' who spent years following the moth was a fraud. This is not speciation, not micro-evolution, not macro-evolution, not evolution at all. It is nothing except an example of the desperation of evolutionists in finding any living proof for their theory.

147 posted on 06/20/2003 4:50:07 AM PDT by gore3000 (Intelligent people do not believe in evolution.)
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To: Dimensio
Gore3000 has been told this before.

Hey thug - if you disagree with me, direct your comments at me. If you have nothing but insults as you do here, keep your comments to yourself.

148 posted on 06/20/2003 4:53:59 AM PDT by gore3000 (Intelligent people do not believe in evolution.)
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To: Pharmboy
I must be colored like an office chair, so as to be camoflauged at work.
149 posted on 06/20/2003 4:56:15 AM PDT by Lazamataz (PROUDLY POSTING WITHOUT READING THE ARTICLE SINCE 1999!)
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To: gore3000
Whatever they claimed it was a lie and a fraud.

I have proof that the fraud evolved, over many generations, into a little tiny white lie.

150 posted on 06/20/2003 4:57:18 AM PDT by Lazamataz (PROUDLY POSTING WITHOUT READING THE ARTICLE SINCE 1999!)
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To: Dimensio
Do you have any intelligent comments to offer

Hey thug, why don't you refute what was said. It is not mindless. It is a list of examples that show evolution to be complete garbage. Insulting the poster does not refute what was said.

151 posted on 06/20/2003 4:57:45 AM PDT by gore3000 (Intelligent people do not believe in evolution.)
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To: jennyp
It is not false, otherwise the phony 'scientist' that pasted them up would not have had a need to commit a fraud, he could just have photographed them any time.-me-

LOL, are you saying that peppered moths change color when they die? Because that's the only way that would be relevant.

Shame on you Jenny. The reason that he had to paste them to the side of trees is that they do not rest on the side of trees - as I said. His statement was that they rested on the side of trees and that was when they were picked off by birds. The man was a liar and a fraud and it is an example of the shamefullness and dishonesty of evolution that they still try to use this fraud as an example of evolution.

It is not irrelevant, because the moths are very hard to see if they perch in the branches of the trees and the coloring would not matter very much in such cases. So you are wrong on both counts.-me-

O...M...G... Well sure: If it's hard for humans to see them way up there in the branches of trees, then it must be just as hard for birds to see them too,

No Jenny, you know exactly what I am speaking of. Mixed in with the leaves and branches they are hard to spot by birds.

The desperation of evolutionists in defending this fraud which in no way proves anything regarding evolution shows the desperation of evolution giving evidence of its theory.

152 posted on 06/20/2003 5:06:14 AM PDT by gore3000 (Intelligent people do not believe in evolution.)
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To: Lazamataz
Is that a bad thing?
153 posted on 06/20/2003 7:40:11 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to...)
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To: Pharmboy
[Darwin:] " .....scarcely a single point is discussed in this volume on which the facts cannot be adduced, often apparently leading to conclusions directly opposite to those at which I arrived".

This is science, and this is precisely why he was so brilliant.

In particular, the surfacing of such snippets is Creationist Quote Science. Darwin stated his theory as precisely as possible. He anticipated every objection which he could himself imagine. Thus, his text is replete with rhetorical questions, counter-proposals, qualifiers, and conditions. Any of these out of context looks like agonizing self-doubt.

Of course, given that Darwin was merely trying to be understood precisely, the quoter has to be willing to be dishonest in trying to insure that Darwin is misunderstood. Such willingness occurs in abundance amid the community of creationist writers.

154 posted on 06/20/2003 8:11:18 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: gore3000
Shame ... liar ... fraud ... shamefulness ... dishonesty ... fraud ...

Does your Mommy know that you talk this way, little boy?

155 posted on 06/20/2003 9:35:34 AM PDT by balrog666 (When in doubt, tell the truth. - Mark Twain)
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To: balrog666
Which of those words haven't YOU used against the opposition?

just another evo-hypocrite
156 posted on 06/20/2003 10:48:05 AM PDT by ALS (http://designeduniverse.conservababes.com)
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To: gore3000
It is not mindless.

Yes, it is. Most of it was rooted in strawman, making the 'definitions' worthless, even as satire.
157 posted on 06/20/2003 11:20:01 AM PDT by Dimensio (Sometimes I doubt your committment to Sparkle Motion!)
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To: gore3000
Shame on you Jenny. The reason that he had to paste them to the side of trees is that they do not rest on the side of trees - as I said. His statement was that they rested on the side of trees and that was when they were picked off by birds. The man was a liar and a fraud and it is an example of the shamefullness and dishonesty of evolution that they still try to use this fraud as an example of evolution.

Gore, whatever you do, DO NOT READ THE FOLLOWING:

Contrary to Wells's assertions, data given by Majerus indicate that the moths do indeed rest on the trunks of trees 25% of the time. The rest of the time moths rest in branches (25%) or at branch-trunk junctions (50%). The facts have been pointed out repeatedly to Wells; his response has been mostly to claim that moths don't rest on "exposed" tree trunks (). But this is not what he said in the text of Icons, which remains flatly wrong. Moths are found all over trees, which is not a surprise () and it is mentioned in the references that Wells cites.

158 posted on 06/20/2003 11:21:08 AM PDT by jennyp (http://crevo.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: gore3000
Hey thug - if you disagree with me, direct your comments at me.

I've already told you what I think of your lies regarding the peppered moth study and your lies regarding my statements on the peppered moth study. You declined to challenge them. I was just explaining to Aric2000 that you've been told before that your statements are lies but that you continue to repeat them anyway because you are a shameless liar.
159 posted on 06/20/2003 11:21:25 AM PDT by Dimensio (Sometimes I doubt your committment to Sparkle Motion!)
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To: Pharmboy
If differences in skin color are inconsequential in humans, and they are, then what is the big deal about differences in skin color within a species of mouse?

Nearly everywhere these mice are sandy-colored, well camouflaged as they scurry across beige-colored outcrops. But in some areas, ancient lava flows have left behind swaths of blackened rock. There the same species of rock pocket mouse has only dark coats, having evolved an entirely distinct and, for their surroundings, equally well-disguised pelage.

If, as the excerpt above says, it is the same species, then this is no more of a big deal than guernsies and holsteins as far as I can tell.

160 posted on 06/20/2003 11:28:17 AM PDT by FairWitness
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