Bush Presidency is Advancing the Progressive Agenda

Sierra Times ^ | 6-17-03 | John Bender

[Destructor]

Sorry. I thought you were Bush bashing. My mistake.

[SUSSA]

The debate over tariffs is a debate over competition. If domestic products have to compete with lower cost imports it drives the price down.

Competition drives prices down. This leaves more money available for other purchases.

This is what the whole free trade argument boils down to.

But no matter how you look at it tariffs are taxes. Raising tariffs is raising taxes.

[dsutah]

And you're right. Most people may get a little p.o.'d about him once in awhile, that's ok. But when they deliberately distort things he does or did, and lie about it; that's going way too far! I suspect a 'clique' on here are shills. But thankfully, most aren't.

Like I said, a lot of these poisonous accusations of socialism getting thrown around on here, are unworthy of "Freepers"; especially if and when they're aimed at other "Freepers", and people who aren't socialists or traitors at all!

[SUSSA]

No problem! As you can see here I have no problem voicing my disagreements with Bush but, I also have no problem saying so when I agree with him.

[Trace21230]

Bush, like his father, is a Rockefeller Republican.

You are either 1) completely ignorant regarding what a "Rockefeller Republican" is or 2) live on a different planet.

Which is it?

Trace

[A Vast RightWing Conspirator]

Steel and wood cost more because domestic steel and wood don't have to compete with cheeper imports.

Please compute the costs of the Americans losing jobs because some foreigners are dumping their stuff on our markets. Please include in your calculations what the rest of us will be paying in unemployment benefits, all kind of assistance to the unemployed families, the costs the society would pay when some of the laid off workers are forced into crime, alcoholism, drug abuse. What society may have to pay as some of their daughters are forced into prostitution get infected with all kinds of VD's and help spreading them around, the effect on the GDP as these people's decreased incomes mean diminished spending power and therefore less demands for certain goods which, in turn, may cause other workers to be laid off with consequences that I outlined in this paragraph.

No, my friend, protecting our economy in the world market is a President's duty and it's what we want him to do. W does a poor job at it but he's done a tiny bit more than Clinton.

[SUSSA]

Well do you remember those tax increases now?

[alnick]

Clinton fired Linda on Jan 19. W's no re-hiring her on Jan 20, the way he re-hired the State Dept's spokesman, for example, was as good as firing her.

Oh give it up already. You've been caught in a lie and no amount of crawfishing is going to change it. Save face and admit it.

[A Vast RightWing Conspirator]

Wouldn't that boost our own country's lumber and steel companies production, the very companies the greenies have been trying to get shut down for years? Do you suppose greenies buy much lumber and steel?

The 'free traders' reason as if the world economy was some kind of a 'perfect market' where people, goods, services and information move freely and efficiently and nations and states don't count. Of course, this is not the case. Some of our trading partners are our present or future enemies. Most other nations are protecting their own economies and while losing 1000 jobs here while gaining 1000 jobs in China may be a 'zero sum' on a global scale it happens to be a net loss for the U.S. and a net gain for China, helping this COMMUNIST regime get better at spreading its communist values internally and abroad.

[SUSSA]

That is a whole new argument. But tariffs are taxes and nobody brings up the fact that Bush raised taxes more than he cut them.

There is a case to be made for tariffs. However, it gets real tricky to balance tariffs against other taxes. I have no problem with tariffs when they are offset by cuts in corporate taxes. Eliminating corporate income taxes and replacing them with lower tariffs can be a good thing.

But over all I favor free markets and free trade.

[Neets]

HAHAHAHA....

Yea, I know...IS being IS and all that.

[A Vast RightWing Conspirator]

If domestic products have to compete with lower cost imports it drives the price down.

Competition drives prices down. This leaves more money available for other purchases.

No, it doesn't. Since those who made that product domestically are likely to lose their job or produce less and therefore earn less, they will make zero money. This will leave less money availble for other purchases. Especially when you add the price of social assistance and other things then society as a whole will have to pay to support these people and their family - money obtain by the state by taxing its own citizenry.

[A Vast RightWing Conspirator]

What is the lie? Did Linda Tripp have work until the very last day of the Clinton administration? The answer: yes.

Did Linda Tripp have a job under W's administration? The answer: no!!!

See the compassion thing now?

[SUSSA]

If we buy sneakers from Red China and they buy tractors from us jobs shift but everyone comes out better. Japan protected their economy right down the toilet. What is needed is not a WTO type of regulated trade but real free trade that lets the market work.

[SUSSA]

I understand that. I was just saying that instead of remaining quiet and seeing if he turns around why not try to turn him? That way we can support him and feel good doing it.

[SUSSA]

I promised myself that I wasn’t going to sit here all day again today, but here I am. Now I’m out of cigarettes, out of coffee and need to go to my office to see if anyone is working.

I’d love to talk more but must excuse myself soon. I enjoyed our discussion.

[alnick]

But when they deliberately distort things he does or did, and lie about it; that's going way too far!

What they don't understand is that when they tell those lies, they totally discredit their own position.

If their position had any merit it would stand on its own and they wouldn't have to resort to lies such as Linda Tripp was fired by Bush or Bush apologized to China, among many others.

[A Vast RightWing Conspirator]

Japan went down the toilet when we persuaded them to 'open up' their economy while the very well protected Chinese economy was increasingly taking business away from Japan.

And... we do not buy sneakers from China while selling them tractors. By now, the communists who rule China have already demanded that we built ONE tractor factory in China, learned from us how to make tractors efficiently and built 10 more tractor factories on their own. They are now selling us the tractors made by the factory we built while the other 10 factories are saturating the Chinese market to the extent that they no longer need our tractors. They will be using the money they get for exporting us the tractors to develop themselves other industries, especially hi-tech or those that would help them better outfit their army. And they will be selling us those sneakers too.

[alnick]

What is the lie? Did Linda Tripp have work until the very last day of the Clinton administration? The answer: yes. Did Linda Tripp have a job under W's administration? The answer: no!!! See the compassion thing now?

You know what the lie is. Your lie was that Bush fired Tripp. Your defense of that lie is to say that Tripp was not employed by the federal government during the Bush admin.

By your logic, then, I must have been fired by Bush as well, since I've never worked for the fed. gov.

[SUSSA]

There I agree with you. The demand that we build a factory there was not free trade and we should not have done it. We aren't too far apart on this we just see different routs to fixing the situation.

I hate to do it but I really have to go for a while. Let’ talk about this more in the near future. I enjoy talking to you.