Americans owe Confederate history respect

Columbia Tribune ^ | June 10, 2003 | Chris Edwards

[WhiskeyPapa]

Is a man still a slave once you arm him?

Abraham Lincoln certainly thought not:

"When you give the Negro these rights, when you put a gun in his hands, it prophesies something more: it foretells that he is to have the full enjoyment of his liberty and his manhood."

Walt

[Grand Old Partisan]

During the Civil War, the regimental flag of the famed 54th Massachusetts, of black U.S. Army troops, featured a cross and the Latin inscription "In Hoc Signo Vinces" [By This Sign You Will Conquer].

In contrast to the imaginary black Confederates, the 200,000 black men who fought for the United States of America during the Civil War really did exist. The 100,000 southern white men who also fought for the United States of America during the Civil War really existed too, however much they are ignored by neo-Confederates today.

[Monitor]

Thanks; I missed that.

Don't mention it. You're the one doing the heavy lifting - I should thank you. So, I will - thank you!

Oh, there's more ammo in that document if you have the time to read it. For instance, count the number of passages covering slavery, and then count the number of passages covering state's rights, and the number of passages covering tariffs. One of those three is WAY over-represented, and it's not state's rights, and it's not tariffs - contrary to what revisionists in deep clinical denial over the matter will repeatedly claim.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Where did I condemn or ridicule you in this thread? I merely identified you for what you are.....a liberal.

I have some ideas that are considered liberal, and some that are not. People don't realize that when the entire spectrum of politics is considered, Republicans and Democrats in this country are not very far apart.

I really feel that we have a problem in this country of polarization. The idea of a "loyal oppostion" has slipped away from both Republicans and Democrats. I think this had one manifestation in the way Nixn's "dirty tricks" group would heckle and picket democratic rallies way back in the early '70's and the way Clinton was attacked over White Water and the suicide of Vince Foster. There was certainly nothng to either of those attacks; they crossed a line that you used to not see crossed. FDR had a mistress for years, but you didn't see it in the papers. Kennedy's indiscretions were well known to some. He wasn't pilloried over it.

On the other hand, I think some of the Democrats opposed the war and ongoing operations in Iraq for the most partisan of reasons.

But this polarization of conndemning -every- "liberal" per se, and over at DU of condeming every Republican per se, is a really scary thing that is going on in our country today. It may be the -most- scary.

Walt

[mac_truck]

Sad indeed. There was a day, not so many decades ago that Democrats were the conservatives down here and Republicans were the liberals. Of course we're not supposed to point that out I guess......

Here, does this bring back some happier memories for you?

[Grand Old Partisan]

Contrary to neo-Confederate myth, the Confederacy was far more centralized, autocratic, and socialist than was the Union government then or in many ways is the United States today.

[Grand Old Partisan]

Democrat Governor George Wallace's arch-nemesis was Republican federal judge Frank Johnson, appointed by Dwight Eisenhower and descendant of some Billy Yanks from the hills of northern Alabama.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Contrary to neo-Confederate myth, the Confederacy was far more centralized, autocratic, and socialist than was the Union government then or in many ways is the United States today.

When the neo-confederates wax euphoric and get teary-eyed over the ostrich plumes in Jeb Stuart's hat, they forget that the rebel government found empoyment for SEVENTY THOUSAND workers. It was -very- centralized; it was also very ineffective. The rebel givernment also had 4,000 people locked up who only be called political prisoners; that doesn't speak to the dozens of loyal Unionists who were hung. The Richmond government even had internal passports, like the USSR.

But they have the nerve to criticize President Lincoln.

The Neo-confederate movement is really a joke. Any movement of its nature that strays so badly from the historical record should be called on its wanton rationalizations and bogus history, no matter how innocuous its subject.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

Don't mention it. You're the one doing the heavy lifting - I should thank you. So, I will - thank you!

Well, thanks. If more people would speak up, you wouldn't see this blizzard of laughably wrong neo-confederate crap posted all the time.

Walt

[mac_truck]

it makes you wonder, why all the neo-secessionists are given so much latitude around here?

[Grand Old Partisan]

"hanged dozens of loyal Unionists"

The Confederates hanged several HUNDRED Unionists in just East Tennesssee in just 1861. In Texas, the Confederates hanged 44 Unionists from a single tree. Etcetera, etcetra, etcetera.

[Grand Old Partisan]

Most neo-Confederates are lunatics, impervious to facts or logic.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Democrat Governor George Wallace's arch-nemesis was Republican federal judge Frank Johnson, appointed by Dwight Eisenhower and descendant of some Billy Yanks from the hills of northern Alabama.

That is interesting.

Some of the neo-confederates want to quote Lincoln's "any people may rise up and throw off their government" speech from the 1840's, but they forget that a county in northern Alabama voted to remain loyal to the Union, and was coerced into submission by force. I guess the 9th and 10th amendments only apply when neo-confederates want them to apply.

Walt

[Publius6961]

Hey, watch it!

Sorry.
I forgot comparisons are odious.

But this comedian can't even figure out what...
Never mind.

Not important.

[Godebert]

That all sounds very polite for a guy who equates my Southern heritage with Nazism. And you talk of polarization. What a hypocrite. You can sound contrite all you want (I suspect you were read the riot act) but you're still a Clintonista and I will continue to identify you as such for those that might not be aware of your agenda.

[Grand Old Partisan]

It wasn't just Winston County -- most of northern Alabama was against secession. During the Civil War there were several dozen regiments of white troops in the United States Army, such as the 1st U.S. Alabama Cavalry, the 10th U.S. Tennessee Infantry, the 2nd U.S. Mississippi Mounted Rifles, and the 4th U.S. Arkansas Infantry.

[WhiskeyPapa]

The Confederates hanged several HUNDRED Unionists in just East Tennesssee in just 1861.

I've read some pretty poignant accounts of loyal Union men hanged in East Tennessee, but I've never seen any figures. Seems like Non-Sequitur had a relative that was executed. I was born in East Tennessee, but my people are all from West Tennessee and northern Alabama. I had a number of relatives who fought for the rebels.

When I go up to Knoxville this fall to see my Tenneseee Volunteers play in Neyland Stadium, the UT pep band will play a flourish based on "Rally 'Round the Flag!"

Walt

[Grand Old Partisan]

When Union troops marched into Knoxville, Tennessee, cheering residents waved American flags they had hidden from the rebels and placed Confederate flags in the street for their liberators to walk on.

[WhiskeyPapa]

I will continue to identify you as such for those that might not be aware of your agenda.

This is my agenda:

LONG LIVE THE UNITED STATES AND SUCCESS TO THE MARINES!

[WhiskeyPapa]

When Union troops marched into Knoxville, Tennessee, cheering residents waved American flags they had hidden from the rebels and placed Confederate flags in the street for their liberators to walk on.

Right. Governor Isham Harris chased Parson Brownlow out of the state in 1861; in 1865, Parson Brownlow chased Isham Harris out. The Civil War was as bad in Tennessee as it was elsewhere.

Walt