U.S. seniors bypass law, cross border to fill prescriptions

Houston Chronicle ^ | 6/8/03

[Sonny M]

Who was told "The peasants need bread...they're hungry" and she answered "Then let them eat cake"?

Marie Antonete (I probably miss-spelled that).

[meyer]

Because Canada has a socialism based health care system, they buy the drugs in huge massive bulk. Since they do that, they can negotiate the prices down. They pass on those expenses by taxing the hell out of people.

Sadly, we in the US pay the R&D costs for the latest drugs. It isn't the socialization, its price controls in Canada. While I'm not one to favor price controls, I wouldn't mind if it were illegal to sell a drug in the US for a higher price than it is sold for elsewhere. I'm not saying to dictate how much any company can charge - I'm saying (or at least proposing) that drug makers cannot sell in the US for a price higher than the same product is sold elsewhere. That's all.

[areafiftyone]

What is your problem. Can't I just state my opinion which is almost the opinion of everyone on this site? If you differ fine. I am just going by experience. Hopefully nothing like that will never happen to you where you have to pay for your parent's medicine. I have empathy for seniors which I don't think is a bad thing. It was an experience for me to see the outrageous prices of medicine. If you don't believe it try having to buy 3 different kinds at once. Something I was not aware of because I never had to buy any for myself over the years until this year. I don't make alot of money and never did. I don't own a house, can't afford it, I rent and am leaving my apartment in July because of the rent increases in Westchester, NY. I lease a car (which was a stupid mistake on my part). I have taken a $13,000 a year cut in pay just to have a job after losing it right after Sept. 11th. October 5, 2001 to be exact. I am living from paycheck to paycheck right now but hopefuly when I move I will be able to save. I am just saying that people who go across to find cheaper medicine are doing something smart for themselves and their pocketbooks right now. There is nothing wrong with trying to save a buck or two. I don't understand why you can criticize someone you don't even know so easily!

[areafiftyone]

That sounds like a good idea to me.

[FairWitness]

There is an article out there, that details the cost of developing a new drug in the 60-70 million range, minus the government help like tax incentives and development grants.

I spent 27 years in pharmaceutical R&D. I guarantee that $60-70 million drugs are few and far between. $600-700 million is more like the average. And the cost of discovering the drug, where government labs or academia may play a part, is a minor part of the total cost. It is the 2 week, followed by 4 week, followed by one year, toxicology and pathology studies, each in 3 species, followed by lifetime (~3 year) carcinogenicity studies in rodents, and the phase I, II and III and sometimes IV clinical studies, none of which the government helps with that add up to hundreds of millions of dollars.

[Bluewave]

We will probably get kicked off for these comments, but here goes.

I truly believe that the current medical crisis, facing many of the elderly, disabled, and the working poor, will be Hillary's ticket to the White House. I took my father-in-law to a Navy Ship reunion last week. I spent 4 days talking to WWII vets. They openly support Hillary and many are hopeful and believe whe will run and win in 2004. Their reasoning? Health care and prescription drugs.

The conservatives have a very short time left to pass a responsible national health care program. If they don't, the Democrats are going to be given the job.

[TopQuark]

I am not criticising you but your words. For you personally I have nothing but sympathy and good wishes.

The prices for drugs are no more outrageous than those for food, clothes, cars, whatever else we use. These prices support someone else family just like your or mine.

[Snowyman]

I'm not going to spend the time hunting up the $60-70 million story, but this along with others, was not hard to find. ( Google: drug development cost )

Drug prices in the United States are out of control, and rising.

http://lists.essential.org/pipermail/corp-focus/2002/000118.html


"The Tufts-industry estimate is for the cost of new chemical entities for which the industry was wholly responsible -- that is, where there was no substantial public contribution to R&D.

It turns out, however, that the vast majority of new drugs Big Pharma brings to market do not involve new chemical compounds. A May 2002 study by the National Institute for Health Care Management (NIHCM) Foundation found that two-thirds of the prescription drugs approved by the FDA between 1989 and 2000 were modified versions of existing medicines or identical to drugs already on the market (and only about 15 percent were both new and deemed by the FDA to provide significant improvement over existing medicines). Pharma denies it, but there is every reason to believe these less novel products are far cheaper to bring to market.

Then there's the not insignificant fact that the case of drugs brought to market without government support is the exception, not the norm. The federal government supports an enormous amount of research, and funds the earliest and riskiest portions of the R&D process: basic research and the earlier phases of clinical trials.

Finally, the Tufts-industry figures seem to wildly inflate the cost of clinical testing. Looking at company filings with the IRS for tax credits on research for "orphan drugs" (drugs which treat small populations), however, the Consumer Project on Technology found that --
adjusted for risk -- drug companies report expenditures of only $7.9 million on clinical trials, less than 1 percent of the overall estimate.

Even if the costs for this category of drug are below average, as the industry claims -- even if they were, implausibly, a tenth of the average -- this would still suggest a much lower total development cost than the Tufts-industry estimate."

[Hank Rearden]

Looks to me like the only real problem here is the existence of the FDA. Between pharm companies' presumed preference to not kill their customers and liability-suit provisions, medical care ought to survive de-Stalinization just fine.

Of course, we have a President who happily signed legislation to continue Welfare Farmer and steel-subsidy programs, so I'm not holding my breath for a little more freedom from Big Stupid Government.

[Xenalyte]

True story.

About 15 years ago, Xena's Mom (who weighs approximately 20 pounds less than me, at my height) and her best friend decided to visit a "fat doctor" they'd heard about in Ciudad Juarez or Nuevo Laredo or similar.

They went down there and got in. The doc poked Xena's Mom in the thigh and said, "Fluid retention," or something that sounded like that.

Then he gave them each a brown lunch bag FULL of pills - loose pills, not blister-packed or anything.

XM's Friend tried them and went temporarily blind for three days.

Moral: if you're looking for Phenergan, go to Mexico. If you're looking for a good diet plan, try Atkins.

[Xenalyte]

Margie Cockrill, 76, is one of them. She crossed the Rio Grande on a luxury tour bus from Corpus Christi, wearing a purple pantsuit and a lapel pin in the colors of the American flag.

Note to Margie: purple does NOT match either red or blue.

[Xenalyte]

Another true story.

Back in early '97, I and an ex-friend went down to Cancun.

The day we left, I woke up with a heinous sinus infection, and I unwisely took one of her prescribed pills, which turned out to be sulfa, to which I am deathly allergic.

I spent the entire flight, and the next two days, throwing up.

We found a doctor on Isla Mujeres who said he could make me better. He injected something into my hiney that did in fact cure the nausea, but it left a knot that I could feel three years later.

Draw your own lesson from this one, kids.

[areafiftyone]

That's okay. Well disgusted was the word I used when I saw my money going into the pharmacists hands. It was very disheartening to know that I had prescription insurance and still had a co-pay of 70.00! But I guess that was still better than paying full price for the medicines. You are correct in saying that price of alot of things are outrageous and not just perscriptions. I just wish there was a better way.

[areafiftyone]

My conclusion is "Watch those Hiney doctors!". ;-) My sister got sick on a plane ride to Florida and threw up all over me and herself. Talk about projectile vomiting! I was never so grossed out on a flight. She could barely stop being sick all the way and we ended up spending hours in the airport when we landed waiting for her to get the strength enough to go to our hotel. Then she spent the rest of our vacation being sick from both ends. Finally at the end of the week she was well enough to walk around. Horrible experience when you are away from home to be sick. I don't know what she had but it was horrible.

[FairWitness]

Pharma denies it, but there is every reason to believe these less novel products are far cheaper to bring to market.

Less novel products are a safer bet to develop since they are a bit less apt to have surprise toxicities. But any chemical change at all is defined as a new chemical entity (it will have different chemical precursors, and a different route of synthesis) that must go through all the same toxicity and clinical tests. And these are by far more expensive than the basic research the government supports that you and others have been led to believe is such a big part of the equation. And more often than you might believe, adding one methyl group to an old compound, which is about the simplest modification you can make, can at the end of 3-4 years and hundreds of millions of dollars of studies, prove to have been a toxic or tumorigenic modification.

If you could force current drug prices down by 50%, which is what the trips to Canada and Mexico make you think can be done, you could say goodbye to anything remotely close to the current level of bringing innovative new medicines to market, and I suspect most who are complaining about prices would still be complaining.

And yes, I agree that it is very difficult or impossible for some of the elderly to afford prescription drugs. But consider that they have probably never paid anything to insurance during the years they did not need the drugs. Doesn't matter if that is not their fault. The only way that kind of insurance, or almost any kind of insurance, can work is if you pay for it long before you need it. So we must resign ourselves I suppose to the Federal government taking the responsibility. Thats what happens when we (collectively) do not plan ahead

[getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL]

If on Interstate 8, on the AZ/CA line, head west for a minute or two until you see the exit for Algodones Rd. Turn off, and head south. There's a small border crossing with several pharmacies, as well as some awesome chips and margaritas at the restaurant over to the right, just before crossing back to the US side. It's a lot cheaper than the bigger, well-known crossings. If you cross in the Fall or Winter months, all of the American (and Canadian) snowbirds are quite knowledgeable.

[MarkL]

Well, like I said, I opted for the second highest deductible, $1500.00 (no, that's NOT a typo) with a maximum $2500 out of pocket expense per year. That's how I managed to keep my premium down to less than $350/month. Given the way cost have kept shooting up, I figured that I would only have been able to keep paying for my health insurance for another 10 years or so at most. By that time, I should have had my house paid for, and would probably have to sell the house to continue my health insurance...

Mark

[biffalobull]

Simple question, why don't we use the free market system?

Good question, Sonny. The simple answer is the medical lobby, which pumps millions into Washington won't allow it.

If there was a real free(capitalist)system, the Govt. wouldn't care less how much you paid for Doctor prescribed drugs.

The way it is now, is because of the powerful medical lobby making you pay thru the nose.

Regards

[lavaroise]

I think that instead of going accross the border for medicine, we should do something about liberalising drug dispensation and stopping this government welfare medical care fraud that allows people not to look at prices to buy their medicines.

[Henrietta]

"I'm sure if your Govt. took some of the billions it spends on the military.."

Yes, but then who would defend Canada?

I do have some sort of health care. I pay for it, just like I pay for all of my other expenses of daily living. I don't expect the government to take care of me.

Regards to you, serf.