The Pro-Life Movement's Problem With Morality

The Washington Dispatch ^ | June 6, 2003 | Cathryn Crawford

[MHGinTN]

When I read the essay, I didn't get the idea that CC was advocating ONLY logical arguments. I think (she'll correct me if I'm wrong) was saying those who argue primarily from the moral perspective ought to have the good sense to gather a few of the clear medical and social reasons for opposing wholesale killing of unborn children. [Regarding the 'quickening' notion, the alive individual human being begins kicking and swimming in her water world long before she's big enough in her self-built space capsule to be felt by the woman giving life support to her. If one offers the argument of quickening being the stopping point for abortion on demand, one is responsible to identify, within a reasonable few days, at what stage this begins.]

[Clint N. Suhks]

One of the reasons we have abortion on demand is the horrible consequences of back alley abortions,

BullSh!t…”back alley” abortions is propaganda and before Roe was RARELY done. It’s all about the inconvenience of living with the consequences of ones actions period.

[Cathryn Crawford]

I see. :-)

Now, what did you think of the article?

[Cathryn Crawford]

Exactly. Thank you.

[Clint N. Suhks]

We may be within months or years of finding a "genetic" marker

It will be the first and only for ANY behavior.

[RightWhale]

too much time is spent on arguing about why abortion is wrong morally instead of why abortion is wrong logically

A severe and antagonistic misunderstanding of operant behavior has led to both camps, or all camps, standing on curbs and corners flashing signs at each other. Morality is a personal thing, and ethics is a legal matter. The only aspect of this that is even close to philospohical logic is ethics. It is legal. End of story. Making something illegal and punishing misbehavior is a typical liberal act. If we wish to discourage this practice, we should encourage character development in our youth. Maybe character doesn't matter to a certain hedonistic former President, but it certainly matters to most of the rest of us. Do that: encourage character development so that citizens can handle life with some grace.

[Cathryn Crawford]

True.

I don't know about this "no abortion-breast cancer link". I found a lot of information about this when I was researching this article; it all pointed to there being a definite link.

So are you saying we should use only moral arguments?

[colorado tanker]

I don't understand the story's premise, either. For example, a prominent pro-life talk show host here focuses almost exclusively on the medical evidence that fetuses are indeed human and what abortion does to them, downplaying his Catholic faith.

I enjoy debating the logic, because at root the pro-aborts have only two arguments, that the fetus is not human (demonstrably wrong) or the utilitarian argument that some human life should be sacrificied to enhance the quality of life of other humans. Once you get them to admit to the utilitarian argument, you've got them, because the consequences are truly ghastly - its the same argument the Nazi's used to justify the Holocaust.

[palmer]

As if we must choose between being logical and being moral -- a false alternative.

Don't need either alternative. Humanity is universally recognizable through our emotions such as empathy. If we value and nurture our ingrained desire to not see other recognizable humans in pain, then abortion will be a much less likely personal decision by women.

[Onelifetogive]

It will be the first and only for ANY behavior.

You sure? Alcoholism, violence? If not genetic, then chemical, physical, etc.

[netmilsmom]

>>One of the reasons we have abortion on demand is the horrible consequences of back alley abortions,
a much more common occurrence when abortion was illegal than botched abortions when it is legal.<<

From The founder of NARAL - Bernard Nathanson M.D.(Whistleblower Mag. Jan 2003)

"Repeating the big lie often enough convinces the public. The number of women dying from illegal abortions was around 200-250 annually. The figure we constantly fed to the media as 10,000. These false figures took root in the consciousness of Americans, convincing many that we needed to crack the abortion law."

[Clint N. Suhks]

I grew up in the 1970's when women that I personally knew in High School dies from back alley abortions.

Women...more than one? Bullogna! The so called back alley abortions happened in the 60's, Roe was 1973.

[Cathryn Crawford]

Hmm. Perhaps it's the area in which I live. I don't think so, though.

I didn't say that all the activists in the pro-life movement made this mistake. I think that a lot do; and I think it's a serious issue.

You will not change people's minds using a standard of beliefs that they do not agree with.

[The Rant]

It is always a wise choice to have more than one weapon when combating the liberal left. Adding logic to the arsenal can only make the pro-life agenda more rounded and inclusive.

When it comes to this issue, the side that will prevail will be the more inclusive one, the one that appeals to all the ideals.

Good article.

[Clint N. Suhks]

You sure? Alcoholism, violence? If not genetic, then chemical, physical, etc.

NO genetic markers have been found for behaviors.

[patton]

1) Gassing Jews was wrong

2) Defining a class of humans as "subhuman" was a root cause

3) We currently define a "fetus" as subhuman, based on an arbitrary date (third trimester, etc.)

4) Pick a date (8 months, eg)

5) My son (Chris, currently a greenbelt, IQ 150+) was born at less than 8 months. Pick another.

6) Late the liberal date picked = N. Why was the child a child on N, and not on N-1?

7) QED, No date can be picked. 8) So we have to find another criteria - brain activity, or some such.

It's a start.

[Cathryn Crawford]

Thank you. Your opinion means a lot. :-)

[Mr. Silverback]

ProLife Ping!

If anyone wants on or off my ProLife Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.

[Ga Rob]

Not everyone believes all murder is wrong. My values tell me that some people deserve to be shot dead in the street. No trial, no jury....just dead. I know, I know..."Well Rob you're a moral relatavist so you're dead wrong anyway"...says the loving born again Christian. Nope I say those are the people who are dead wrong. Cathryn is right, we all have diffrent values and ways that we believe. You cannot argue a logical fact from a hysterical, fairy tale spouting perspective. The people on the other side will never be swayed.

I used to believe that abortion was not my issue....3 weeks ago when my son was born I changed my mind about that.