A turning point in the Civil War

CS Monitor ^ | June 05, 2003 | Tom O'Brien

[Michael.SF.]

For varied reasons - chiefly the triumph of pro-Southern post-war history, or "Tara"-vision - this incident has been omitted from most accounts. But Sears and McPherson cite witnesses of the pogrom

First I have ever heard of the defeated being able to control the press of the victorious.

BIAS ALERT: Assume this is true for a moment. They state that the fee blacks were "kidnapped and herded south". Then they refer to the 'pogrom.' Which was it? A slaughter or an organized kidnapping?

[stainlessbanner]

One look at the location of publishing houses should hold the answer.

[rebelyell]

Have you ever seen the poster with an astronaut erecting a Confederate flag on the moon?

The caption reads "If we had only won Gettysburg"

Deo vindice, my brothers

[Restorer]

It's quite well established that southern troops captured escaped slaves during all their advances, and they weren't always all that scrupulous about their legal status. Guven the ideology they were upholding, it made perfect sense to do so.

This is not an example of PC South-bashing, although there has been a lot of that going around in recent years. There were some very ugly realities about the southern side of the war, as well as of the northern side. As with all wars.

[Restorer]

James McPherson, BTW, is the author of what is widely considered the standard one-volume history of the War, Battle Cry of Freedom. I'm in the middle of my second reading, and it is very fair to both sides. He does mention the Confederate kidnapping of blacks during their invasions in that book, published in 1988, but doesn't dwell on it, like someone would who was trying to push a political point.

[Im Your Huckleberry]

Vicksburg, not Gettysburg, was the turning point in the Civil War.

Chattanooga sealed it.

Once U.S. Grant took Vicksburg, and then was placed in overall command, the question was only "when" the north won, not "if".

It was U.S. Grant's victories in the western theater that decided the war, the eastern theater simply garners more attention. One was a true "theater" of war, the other was simply a series of indecisive battles taking place over a less than 100 mile stretch of ground.

[stainlessbanner]

McPherson's Left Wing Politics

I recently got a copy of the Library of Congress Civil War Desk Reference. Does not even address Blacks in the South despite documented evidence and accounts. I'm still reading thru it.

[rebelyell]

McPhernut is about as fair and impartial as most of lincoln's worshipers. You cannot expect much from someone who idolizes a tyrant.

[Michael.SF.]

This is not an example of PC South-bashing.

I would beg to differ. That is exactly what it is.

I am willing to concede that southern troops rounded up Blacks, both free and escaped. This probably occurred rarely since 90% of the war was fought in the south. But the article itself is contradictory, since it says they were kidnapped and then they say it was a 'pogram.'

Since a pogram refers to a massacre or a holocaust type of mass killing, they would not have been doing both.

Why would the south expend energy and resources to kill in mass Blacks? Especially since to the south, the blacks were property from which they could make a profit.

[twigs]

I read one of McPherson's books on the Civil War several years ago and found it to be entirely biased. Only saw slavery as the reason for the conflict. That's just not true. He is now off of my "to read" authors booklist.

[LexBaird]

Why would the south expend energy and resources to kill in mass Blacks? Especially since to the south, the blacks were property from which they could make a profit.

From dictionary.com:

"Pogrom: An organized, often officially encouraged massacre or persecution of a minority group, especially one conducted against Jews."

I'd say that mass kidnappings into forced servitude qualifies as a persecution.

[eddiespaghetti]

Since a pogram refers to a massacre or a holocaust type of mass killing, they would not have been doing both.

THE WORD "POGROM" WHEN USED IN THE CONTEXT OF KIDNAPPING BLACK FREEPERSONS (a bow to PC) AND SENDING THEM SOUTH IS GROTESQUELY MISPLACED.

WHOEVER FIRST APPLIED THE TERM HERE SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

es

[dirtboy]

Since a pogram refers to a massacre or a holocaust type of mass killing,

Wrong. Read the definition in post #12 again - or are you parsing the word "OR" here...

[rebelyell]

Where are the ovens? Where are the mass graves? Not in the American South. This is just another historically ignorant and intellectually dishonest attempt to liken the Confederacy to the third reich. It's just silly.

[Michael.SF.]

I'd say that mass kidnappings into forced servitude qualifies as a persecution.

From Thorndike-Barnhart World Book Dictionary:

pogram- an organized massacre, especially of Jews.

I have never seen 'pogram' used in any other way. If we accept the definition, which you quoted, then the following sentence would be true:

Following the victory over the south, the north launced a pogram against the defeated states, symbolized by the now infamous, 'carpetbaggers.'

[Michael.SF.]

WHOEVER FIRST APPLIED THE TERM HERE SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

That would be the author of the original Christian Science Monitor article, O'Brian. It is not clear if Sears and McPherson also used the phrase, which I and my dictionary agree is a distortion of the use of the word.

[DPB101]

Excellent primary source site on this area of battle:

The Valley of the Shadow: Living the Civil War in Pennsylvania and Virginia

20,000 pages from 8 newspapers, dairies, maps, official records etc. One account of the battle of Gettysburg is : Diary of Reverend Abraham Essick.

[LexBaird]

I have never seen 'pogram' used in any other way. If we accept the definition, which you quoted, then the following sentence would be true:...

Just because you haven't heard it used, doesn't mean it isn't a valid use of the word. Pogroms were not just extermination campaigns, but were also used to drive populations out and provide slave labor in Russia.

Is it a loaded term? Sure, but it still is valid. Is it evidence of the author's bias? Maybe an indicator. Nevertheless, the author is not accusing the Confederates of genocide, but of mass kidnapping into slavery of free blacks.

Following the victory over the south, the north launced a pogram against the defeated states, symbolized by the now infamous, 'carpetbaggers.'

You could also write something like: "Following the defeat of the Slavocrats, Southerners founded the K.K.K. to promote pogroms against the former slaves."

There's plenty of ugly history to go around.

[bruin66]

Wonder how many can translate your tag line...