Battle of Midway, 4-7 June 1942

http://www.history.navy.mil/index.html ^ | Unknown | DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY -- NAVAL HISTORICAL CENTER

[eeman]

Thanks for the info regarding the book, "Incredible Victory" and for your congrats. I will probably need to wait until my next vacation.

Changing the topic but staying within the subject of military history, you should read, "Siezing the Enigma: The race to break the U-Boat codes." The book is completely non fiction but reads like a well done Clancy thriller (ie his old stuff). I could not put it down

[SAMWolf]

Remembering Torpedo Squadron 8

June 4, 1942: Torpedo Squadron 8, off the USS HORNET, attacked the Japanese carriers off Midway. Flying old, slow aircraft armed with defective torpedoes and lacking fighter cover, they were all shot down without inflicting any damage on the enemy. But by attracting the attention of the Japanese combat air patrol, their sacrifice made possible the success of the American dive bombers that arrived overhead minutes later, to devastate the Japanese carriers Akagi, Kaga, and Soryu, bringing victory at Midway

Lt. Commander John C. Waldron	KIA
Lt. Raymond A. Moore	KIA
Lt. James C. Owens	KIA
Lt.(jg) George M. Campbell	KIA
Lt.(jg) John P. Gray	KIA
Lt.(jg) Jeff D. Woodson	KIA
Ens. William W. Abercrombie	KIA
Ens. William W. Creamer	KIA
Ens. Harold J. Ellison	KIA
Ens. William R. Evans	KIA
Ens. George H. Gay	WIA
Ens. Henry R. Kenyon	KIA
Ens. Ulvert M. Moore	KIA
Ens. Grant W. Teats	KIA
Robert B. Miles, Aviation Pilot 1c	KIA
Horace F. Dobbs, Chief Radioman	KIA
Amelio Maffei, Radioman 1	KIA
Tom H. Pettry, Radioman 1	KIA
Otway D. Creasy, Jr. Radioman 2	KIA
Ross H. Bibb, Jr., Radioman 2	KIA
Darwin L. Clark, Radioman 2	KIA
Ronald J. Fisher, Radioman 2	KIA
Hollis Martin, Radioman 2	KIA
Bernerd P. Phelps Radioman 2	KIA
Aswell L. Picou, Seaman 2	KIA
Francis S. Polston, Seaman 2	KIA
Max A. Calkins, Radioman 3	KIA
George A. Field, Radioman 3	KIA
Robert K. Huntington, Radioman 3	KIA
William F. Sawhill, Radioman 3	KIA

[SAMWolf]

Code breaking during the war is a subject all on it's own.

I love Clancy's "Ryan" series.

[eeman]

Certainly the actions of Waldron and VT-8 were horrbily brave. However, Gordon Prange in "Miracle at Midway" makes the point that the post-battle publicity that they received overshadowed the gallantry and sacrifice of others who were equally as noble. For instance, 10 out of 14 torpedo planes of VT-6, under the command of Lt. Commander Eugene Lindsey were shot down in their torpedo attack without air cover, including Lindsey. He conjectures the story of the sole survivor of VT-8, Lt. Gay and the fact he was charismatic is why VT-8 was singled out more so than other torpedo squadrons. I just say prayers for all of them in my remembrance.

As for victory disease by the Japanese, one anecdote I read in the Miracle at Midway is that one of the communications of Japanese code they broke were some orders posting a soldier/soldiers to Midway to start in August of 1942. The orders were, of course, broadcasted before the battle

[eeman]

Oops,excuse me, Ensign Gay, not Lt. Gay

[kabar]

Thanks. Too often we view these battles from a larger perspective, e.g., codes broken, ship movements, etc., but it still boils down to the courage and skill of the individual combatants and their ability to accomplish their mission.

[hchutch]

The thing that won Midway was Wade McCLuskey's refusal to quit looking. He found that destroyer, and followed it to the Kido Butai. Enterprise's SBDs took out two carriers, and then they split Hiryu with the Yorktown SBDs later on June 4.

I wonder if Yorktown would have survived Midway had Fletcher not been in charge of TF 17. Fletcher was NOT exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer and should have been relieved after his poor performance during the Wake Relief Expedition.

[SAMWolf]

Running low on fuel and decided to keep looking knowing there was the possibilty of not mnaking it back to the carriers. Amazing men.

[oyez]

"Japs" is censored

We could do everything distructive imagionable to the enemy, but we couldn't call them "Japs." Please. In all honesty we called more censorable names than "Japs".

[Redleg Duke]

Point well taken. The VT-8 Saga got a boost from Winston Churchill's reaction to it also. Also, VT-8 being wipped out except for one man is stuff of legends...the other squadrons actually had survivors.

That attack is a classic example of the "fog of war".

[eeman]

What really could have lost the battle for the Americans and probably did lead to the loss of the Yorktown was the American attack planes not knowing where the Japanese fleet was. This is despite that a US submarine was in constant contact, the Midway Island-based planes were also in contact with the Japanese all morning long. This information was never passed on to the carrier based planes. Except for the skill and initiative of Waldron, McCluskey,et al, the US carrier planes may never have found the Japanese fleet. I don't think this can be blamed on Fletcher.

If you really want to play a "what if" scenario, think about what might have been had Halsey not been sick and Spruance was not given command. Halsey got suckered by the Japanese at Leyte Gulf. He might have got suckered by the Japanese at Midway into a follow up engagement and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

[hchutch]

My beefs with Fletcher are more his incompetence during the Wake Relief Expedition and in pulling out prior to the battle of Savo Island. He did not make that many mistakes at Midway (although had he sent BOTH squadrons of SBDs out on June 4, as opposed to using one on a scouting mission early on), he might have been able to take Hiryu out in that first strike. His best move was turning things over to Spruance once yorktown was hit that first time.

Also, Halsey was not dumb, and I don't think he'd have been suckered in June of 1942. Leyte Gulf was not even all Halsey's fault. There were two chains of command, and there was a distinct lack of communications. Furthermore, the carriers were thought to be the greatest threat at the time.

[gunnrmike]

USNS Midway Public Works Department,

Steel Shop Supervisor

Nov 1974 - Nov 1975

One the best duty stations of my 30 year Navy Career!

Gunnrmike

[clamper1797]

Please add me to your ping list

Thank you

[eeman]

Congratulations to you sir on your Navy career. I was never in the military. I applied for Navy ROTC in college but was disqualified due to a hip defect I was born with. I am not exactly handicapped--I rowed junior varsity crew in college for one year and I still ski. So figure that one out.

[clamper1797]

VA-93 USS Midway CVA-41 Apr72- Apr73 Yankee Station Gulf of Tonkin

[eeman]

I cannot make any intelligent comment about Wake Island or more specific comments about Leyte Gulf. Alas,Midway and the Battle for the Atlantic are the only things I know in detail. Regarding Fletcher at Midway, however, I was under the impression that he passed control to Spruance early in the AM, after the carriers were sighted but before any attack.

[hchutch]

Passing command to Spruance was probably the best move Fletcher made during the battle.

[oyez]

I think the Marines on 'Canal called him "Haul Ass" Fletcher.

[hchutch]

He certainly seemed like he'd rather fuel than fight. :)