Blinded by Science

Discovery Institute ^ | 6/2/03 | Wesley J. Smith

[Phaedrus]

Oh, balrog, give it a rest. There a good things going on here.

[betty boop]

Sorry Betty, it's not worth all the time you put into composing it, imo.

Yet again, tpaine, we see things differently. I hope we can continue to disagree without being disagreeable. God bless you, friend. Good night! -- bb

[general_re]

I think he would, just like so many Materialists and evolutionists, have to give God more space. It's all his story, afterall, not ours, so when He with the vast and unfathomable mind speaks things to us (or dictates or gives people concepts to write in their words) we need to be careful not to engage in eisegesis, while we're attempting a faithful exegesis.

An eminently sensible answer. In any case, the fault for improper interpretation or improper assignations about God's nature lies solely within those who do it. God is not changed a whit if evolution turns out to be true - the only thing that might have to change is how we think about God. And that's hardly God's fault ;)

[unspun]

I see the drums are beating in the deep and balrog666 arises, even as if to challenge a servant of the secret fire.

Ho hum.

Pay no attention to the image (but take a look at the dude behind the curtain).

[cherry_bomb88]

Pay no attention to the image (but take a look at the dude behind the curtain).

ROTFL!!!

balrog666 is JUST the evolutionist type I was referring to last night when I said that they are only evolutionists so they don't have to have accountability for doing wrong....if they do not believe in God, they do not believe in hell, so therefore they are free to live a sin-filled life without consequences....what a surprise they have waiting for them at the end of their life's journey.

I think that is what makes them so emotional...they have some fear that we *might* actually be right but they don't want to let go of whatever sin they are beholden to.

Nine Inch Nails said it best...."Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve...."

[general_re]

By way of response, I must merely point out that your argument here lies not with me, but with those who insist that a six-day creation means six literal days exactly as we understand them. And I'm sure you know that this is hardly a strawman construct of my own invention - there are plenty of people who insist on the literal truth of every bit of the book of Genesis, right down to six literal 24-hour days of creation. As you excellently point out, such a hyperliteral reading of the book of Genesis is tendentious at best, and I have little choice to agree with you on this point.

Certainly, this does not appear to be a problem worthy of bleeding and dying over, for Heaven's sake.

Why would anyone have to rethink his conception of God over a mere quibble like this?

Alas, some folks are just not as eminently sensible as you, BB, and have invested a great deal in what you rightly call a "quibble" - to them, it is far from a trivial matter, for some reason. And thus they are forced into the increasingly uncomfortable position of choosing between their literal reading and the evidence of their eyes. Abandoning such a reading seems like the sensible thing to do, but that means rethinking one's conception of what the nature of God is - and people tend to find that difficult for one reason or another...

[unspun]

...the fault for improper interpretation or improper assignations about God's nature lies solely within those who do it. God is not changed a whit if evolution turns out to be true - the only thing that might have to change is how we think about God. And that's hardly God's fault ;)

Well we could all split up and tell all involved the differences then, between what we can derive from science and what we can gain from the one who gave us all our means to understand truth (including the way more important than even science: relation with Word and Spirit).

We can also take a deep satisfying breath (hey, just like Adam did) and realize that nothing will fundamentally change how we think about God, where we are faithful to think of what the God of integrity and revelation tells us about Himself.

I'm pinging balrog666 here too, for the enjoyment.

[tpaine]

No the 'rub' is that you believe the theory is somehow a threat to you. -- Why?

How can a theory that has been refuted by both fact and logic be a threat to me? And it is the Darwinists who behave as though threatened (name calling, jeering, Creationist-bashing etc.).

I asked for a logical answer. I see you cannot comply.

I was in fact a naive believer (of sorts, I suppose) in Evolution for some 3 decades before looking into its claims. When I "woke up", I was quite angry at being lied to by "society".

Socialists lie, granted. They have a reason. There is no reason to lie for a theory. You imagine one.

Beyond those who without much thought feel they must defend "the scientific mainstream", there is an Atheist agenda at work AND, as shown by the 20th Century, Nihilism and Atheism kill. I thus oppose the "theory".
Let me back away from the blanket statement that Nihilism and Atheism kill. These structures of belief open the door to mass murder.

~Hype~. Any fanatical belief can lead to mass murder.
Evolutionary theorists are not fanatics, [most could care less what individuals believe, imo.]; -- but groups of zealots prove the opposite to be true..

And "survival of the fittest" leads to "might makes right". Athists are not natural born killers. I don't think anyone is. But atheists are, at minimum, glaringly wrong. Nonetheless an apology is given herewith if anyone feels one is needed.

Your zealous, almost fanatical convictions are apparent.
Heed the words of a wise man:

"The continuous disasters of man's history are mainly due to his excessive capacity and urge to become identified with a tribe, nation, church or cause, and to espouse its credo uncritically and enthusiastically, even if its tenets are contrary to reason, devoid of self-interest and detrimental to the claims of self-preservation.
We are thus driven to the unfashionable conclusion that the trouble with our species is not an excess of aggression, but an excess capacity for fanatical devotion."
-Arthur Koestler-

[unspun]

Ya gotta serve somebody, yes indeed ya gotta s-e-e-r-r-r-ve somebody....
B. Dylan

You can take your diamonds and lock them in your room,
and you will loose everything you save.
You can take your flowers and lay them on his tomb,
but I know he rose up from the grave....
L. Norman

[spunkets]

"millions of years based on the scripture that time to us is like the blink of an eye for God"

That's right. God didn't write any science in that book that I know of. His teachings are of Himself, His moral code and the nature of man and in all of it, I have never found a contradiction. All else is irrelevant. They are the things of this world that we were told not to fret over. God never decieves, so if you see something in this world, not only did God create it, it is exactly what it is. So if the Universe looks like it's billions of years old, it is.

He said that the only sign He would give is that of the resurrection. So the original gift of life, becomes eternal life. The key here is how much do you love yourself, your children and others, to make sure their lives are eternal as God hoped. There are those that never knew God, but will have eternal life and those that reject the Holy Spirit, that will not have it. God, the Holy Spirit is the one that told us about Himself in the Bible.

It's not what men tell you that's important, it's what the Holy Spirit tells you that is. In an earlier post, I said the brain is the machinery of the mind. It can also function as a transreciever. IOWs it's like a radio that can recieve revelation from the Holy Spirit. That's how it was done with Jesus, the prophets and everyone else. The details of mechanics aren't important, just that it occurs as God said it did and would.

In Genesis it is written that God created the Universe out of the void. The void is empty space, or vaccuum. Physics tells us this space is loaded with energy. The presence of that energy can even be measured. Still it can't be used, by anyone in this world. That energy and the structure therein is what causes and limits the speed of light to be constant and have it's particular value.

The world has these things to consider, so they can never say, "you're crazy, that's just supernatural hogwash" with certainty. His teachings of Himself, His moral code and the nature of man, that is all that's important.

[cherry_bomb88]

I'm pinging balrog666 here too, for the enjoyment.

Antagonizer!!!!!! ROTFL

Here's the thing, unspun, even IF they turned out to be right (which I KNOW they aren't) I will have lived a better life full of truth and morals.

Want to come play Literati with the sultan and me in a bit????

[cherry_bomb88]

spunky, you remind me of my dad.

You are not the kind of evolutionist for which my disdain grows daily. ;o)

[balrog666]

I'm pinging balrog666 here too, for the enjoyment

Over here! See the dancing balrog! Only 10 cents a show ...

The only point I tried to make was that everytime you start getting Bibical on the thread (or blaming every past ill of communism and socialism on Darwin's little book), a great many people will tune out and for obvious reasons.

And, if I may suggest it, if your ONLY argument is to try to whack someone on the head with your holy book, I think you need to find another way to express your opinion.

[spunkets]

" Why would anyone have to rethink his conception of God over a mere quibble like this?"

LOL! The nature of man.

[spunkets]

Thanks.

[unspun]

In case bb is busy, g_r, please be invited to tell us what you're thinking regarding a believer's thoughts of the nature of God being changed. I can see a change in one's understanding of the history of how God has interacted with creation until breathing spiritual life into the nostrils of Adam. From that point onward, we have much more specific information, though the principles of Biblical interpretation hold fast.

[unspun]

Literati?

[cherry_bomb88]

You have FReep Mail!

[unspun]

...sigh

Has it ever occured to you that multiple contradicting testimonies don't necessarily rule out one of the testimonies (although they rule out all but one)?

But, I don't tend to whack people over the head with God's Holy Book; could hurt the binding. I love sharing its truths though.

cb, are you telling me you aren't watching the Cubs beat the Yankees on ESPN?

[sultan88]

Thanks for the ping. Looks like an interesting thread. Bumping for later reading.