Europe Returning to Pagan Roots

NewsMax ^ | May 30, 2003 | Fr. Mike Reilly

[AmericanVictory]

It is but a short step from the worship of Hegel to the worship of the Erdgeist, albeit a backward one.

[TheAngryClam]

Not to mention the laws of Europe (the civil code is a direct descendant from Roman Law) and well, in a good part, those of America.

[ffusco]

Even such quaint traditions as the wedding ring and carrying a bride over the threshold are Roman customs.


ROMA INVICTA!

[nightdriver]

"Christianity was a disaster for Europe."

I would really like to know your basis for saying that. Could you be a bit more specific?

[philetus]

"The Tophet, the sacred precinct in Carthage. Here, from the eighth century B.C. until the second century B.C., mothers and fathers of Carthage buried the bones of their children sacrificed to the god Ba'al Hammon and to the goddess Tanit. By the fourth century B.C. the Tophet may have been as large as 64,800 square feet (6,000 square meters), with nine levels of burials. Archaeologists today group these levels into three periods designated Tanit l, ll, and lll."

Biblical Archaeology Review.
January/February 1984, Vol. X,#1.P-32
Biblical Archaeology Society-Washington , D.C.

"Firstborn sons and daughters were offered by Carthaginian parents as living sacrifices in times of great calamities-war, famine, drought and plague. On a moonlight night, ancient writers say, a priest placed a child mercifully killed moments earlier, on the outstretched arms of a statue of Baal. As the infant's body rolled into a flaming pit-entering the company of the gods- flutes,tambourines, and lyres drowned out the parents' cries. Later the ashes and bones were collected in a small urn and placed with thousands of others in the sacrificial precinct, or tophet, of the goddess Tanit at Carthage... Archaeologists have found evidence of human sacrifice also in Sardina and Sicily."

National Geographic Magazine
August 1974. P-166.

"Out of reverence for Kronos ( Baal), the Phoenicians, and especially the Carthaginians, whenever they seek to obtain some great favor, vow one of their children, burning it as a sacrifice to the deity, if they are especially eager to gain success...When the flames fall on the body, the limbs contract and the open mouth seems almost to be laughing, until the contracted body slips quietly into the brazier."

Source: Dr. John Currid, Archaeologist
Associate Professor of Old Testament.
Reformed Theological Seminary
5422 Clinton Ave.,
Jackson, Ms. 39056

NOTE: THIS RITUAL BURNING OF CHILDREN WAS CALLED "THE ACT OF LAUGHING."

[ffusco]

Rome destroyed Carthage, after it lost 2 wars and broke a treaty. Subsequently cannibalism and human sacrifice were outlawed. This occured in Roman Britian as Druidic sacrifice was discouraged-But as a concession Condemmed criminals were made available to them.


Table IX: Public Law of Rome
6. Putting to death of any man, whosoever he might be, unconvicted is forbidden.

[Dat]

Christianity was a disaster for Europe.

That is a highly simplistic statement. Modern custom and culture is dictated to a far greater extent from the Judeo-Christian tradition than the Roman model, which is not to belittle the influence of Rome (although Rome itself was primarily responsible for the spread of Christianity both directly and indirectly), but to highlight the importance of the other traditions.

[ffusco]

Many pagan rituals were acts of patriotism in Rome- like our Pledge of Allegience, and refering to the signers as The Founding Fathers.

As Christianity was adopted by many Romans , and later made the state religeon AD300? its followers became increasingly unpatriotic and docile. Not only was the "Eternal Flame" of Rome allowed to be extiguished (legend says it burned continuosly for centuries) but the very infrastructure of civilization was allowed to deteriorate.

Of course there were numerous factors that led to Romes fall including: Immigration, a lazy middle class, a foreign army, high taxes, massive public asistance, and the tyranny of corrupt military leaders.

[ffusco]

I enjoyed the subtext of Ben Hur- that God worked through the Roman Empire and through the actions of good men. Rome also allowed Jesus to fulfill his destiny by his matrydom.

[Wilhelm Tell]

And now many European countries are voluntarily reliquishing their heritage and future to the tyrant Islam.

Someone who knew nothing about Europe, say, an alien from another planet or a typical American public school student, would believe that Wiccan and Islam are the main--indeed only--religions that were ever practiced in Europe.

[tictoc]

"Drawing inspiration from the cultural, religious and humanist inheritance of Europe, which, nourished first by the civilizations of Greece and Rome, characterized by spiritual impulse always present in its heritage and later by the philosophical currents of the Enlightenment, has embedded within the life of society its perception of the central role of the human person and his inviolable and inalienable rights, and of respect for law. ..."

Language is so revealing, isn't it? Compare the above monstrosity (from the preamble to the new Euro constitution) to the clear, straightforward phrasing of the United States' Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

[Dat]

If I remember correctly, as areas became Romanized the number of soldiers recruited from those areas declined remarkably. I believe that by the time of the empire most soldiers were from the provinces and then later on from areas outside the empire. I don't know whether patriotism was a factor in most of Rome in the time just before the rise of Christianty as most of the population were not really citizens in the modern sense of the word.

I think most of the institutions and attitudes we (as conservatives) admire in the Romans were pretty much tied to the Republican era, and as far as I know any Republican sentiment died out by the time of Tiberius (although I don't know, do you know when Romans finally gave up on the idea of the Republic, as it was in the time of the consuls?)

[GaConfed]

Of course there were numerous factors that led to Romes fall including: Immigration, a lazy middle class, a foreign army, high taxes, massive public asistance, and the tyranny of corrupt military leaders.

With the exception of the two allusions to the military, all the factors you list are present in our society today (of course, with generals around like Wesley Clark, you may be able to include that one too).

As for Christianity, I think the negative impact on European culture was due more to the governing buracracy that the Catholic Chruch built up around Chistianity than Christianity itself; things like promoting ignorance and illiteracy through the Latin translation of the Bible, and then only allowing the clergy to learn Latin.

[ffusco]

As Roman provinces became civilized the people became lazy prefering a bourgeois lifestyle to that of a farmer/soldier which was a 26 year career. Rome prefered to "nation build" and when a people were Romanized they were expected to guard their own land with native troops. Rome couln't have a standing army throughout its empire so instead built raods in order to send rapid response to any border conflict.
This was evident in Roman Britain where native Britons defended their northern outpost for 200? years after the Romans left. Britain continually asked Rome for help, but Rome was busy fighting the Goths who were flowing into the Empire from Romania through Germany.
I think you are correct about conservative admiration for republican Rome, although the Golden age was under the Ceasers and a period of so-called good Emperors. Many orators were critical , particularly Cicero, and many Romans were aware their civilization was in decline- as today we complain about illegal immigration and corruption. Even under the Empire many republican traditions continued at the local levels of government.

[wretchard]

A return to the actual pagan pantheon of Europe would bode ill for Islam. What jihadist would venture his paradise against a Nordic warrior bent on Valhalla? Or face the devotees of Apollo Far Striker again in the narrow passes of Greece? As if that were any better meeting Britons smeared with woad longing for the Far Isles.

No, the paganism that modern Europeans long for goes no further than healing crystals and aromatherapy. Europe's forgetfullness of its Christian past is misnamed. The true word is senescence.

[ffusco]

I couldn't agree more.

[ffusco]

"With the exception of the two allusions to the military, all the factors you list are present in our society today"
Ominous isn't it?

I think we are in our Golden Age NOW. At the equivalent time In Rome, the satirist Juvenal compains of the corruption in Rome, the abundance of lawyers, the endless fads, the disrespect for authority and traditions, lewdness, the high rents, the noise of traffic, inflation, lying politicians, dirty foreigners..........

[GaConfed]

Many orators were critical , particularly Cicero, and many Romans were aware their civilization was in decline- as today we complain about illegal immigration and corruption. Even under the Empire many republican traditions continued at the local levels of government.

I think the same could be said where it concerns Plato's critical anaylisis of Athenian Democracy. He saw the handwriting on the wall and told the truth about it, and the rusult was his demise..........and the demise of Athenian influence. Of course, Alexander the Great's decadent multiculturalism brought down Athens and everyone else. Just take a look at art during the Hellenistic period (the agransdisment of the common), and that of the height of Greek civilization (the worship of the ideal).

[ffusco]

Its absolutely Victorian in its convolution as contrasted to our elegant "plains-spoken" preamble.

[GaConfed]

I meant Socrates, not Plato. Scuse me!!