Posted on 05/27/2003 12:34:23 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
To the contrary friend. In WWII we fought vociferously on the side of and for the cause of Communism in our campaign in Europe. Billions of dollars of material were diverted from our troops to Soviet Russia. It would be typical of a communist or fellow-traveller to volunteer for such a fight. The main resistors of WWII were the Nazi sympathizers and the Old Right. Lets not forget that Soviet Russia was just as much an agressor as Nazi Germany, and in the titanic match of the war called Operation Barbarossa, was beat the to punch by Germany by a matter of weeks.
The camp commander was the third person in the photo and was inconsequential to the hearing.
You're right, "crimes" is a bit harsh. Let's just say McCarthy's "offenses." (You can begin with Wheeling, WV, February, 1950.)
America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8Mb File Here (Requires RealPlayer)
How was this an "offense"? Have you ever actually read what he said at the time, both in the speech, and later in the Congress?
At Wheeling, he claimed to have a list of 205 Communists/sympathizers. Later that number was lowered to other numbers and finally in the Congressional Record to 57. At any rate, he produced no list.
America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8Mb File Here (Requires RealPlayer)
At Wheeling he claimed to have 57 Communists. The 205 number is a fabrication based on various misrepresenations. The list of them is included in "McCarthy and His Enemies" by William F. Buckley, along with 24 other individuals later included during the investigation. He refused to release them by name in a big list for the Media and the rest of Congress. He specifically said in the Congressional Record that "It would be a shame if we were to accuse someone to be a Communist and they were not." This is my best recollection. I'll check and make sure I have this correct tonight, and give you the reference in the Congressional Record for you to persue.
Not precisely, this is more a "he said, she said" kind of conundrum.
Q. Wasn't it reported that McCarthy used the number 205 in his Wheeling speech, lowered it to 57 later, and then raised it again to 81?
A. Yes, this was reported, and here is the explanation: In the Wheeling speech, McCarthy referred to a letter that Secretary of State James Byrnes sent to Congressman Adolph Sabath in 1946. In that letter, Byrnes said that State Department security investigators had declared 284 persons unfit to hold jobs in the department because of communist connections and other reasons, but that only 79 had been discharged, leaving 205 still on the State Department's payroll. McCarthy told his Wheeling audience that while he did not have the names of the 205 mentioned in the Byrnes letter, he did have the names of 57 who were either members of or loyal to the Communist Party. On February 20, 1950, McCarthy gave the Senate information about 81 individuals - the 57 referred to at Wheeling and 24 others of less importance and about whom the evidence was less conclusive.http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1996/vo12no18/vo12no18_mccarthy.htm
According to reports of the speech, McCarthy said he had a list "in [his ] hand" of 205 communists...." Since the reports were made contemporaneously (or no later than the next day) and McCarthy's "sanitized" version was put into the Congressional Record by him at a later time -- can you say self-serving? -- I tend to believe the "she said" over the "he said."
That isn't to say that McCarthy was the demon the left press has made him out to be. But he was no saint, either.
America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8Mb File Here (Requires RealPlayer)
What is your real angle here?
If you're one who believes the end justifies the means then McCarthy is a saint, otherwise, you understand that he was also flawed.
What is your real angle here?
Joe McCarthy would be proud that you took the time to ask. My "real angle" is simply to say that McCarthy was neither total sinner nor total saint.
America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8Mb File Here (Requires RealPlayer)
And I would encourage you to read the Congressional Record. Volume for 1950, Date of February 20. Its around pages 1957 to 1981. Senator McCarthy entered the speech into the record based on a transcript taken down from a recording (the recording was offered to anyone who wanted it). He did not speak from a written text. The speech mentions the 205 number in the telegram to President Truman, also entered into the record, and quotes "I have in my hand 57 cases of people" who McCarthy said were either car-carrying communists or at the very least sympathetic fellow-travellers.
As to your "later time" the speech was a Lincoln Day speech, thus given on February 12, 1950. February 20, 1950 was the earliest McCarthy could speak ont he subject at some length in the Senate.
The controversy of 205 and 57 was specifically addressed by McCarthy several times in answering the heckling of a number of Democrats, including Majority Leader Sen. Lucas (IL) and Sen. Lehman (NY). He denied the sensationalized newspaper reports by quoting the speech's transcript.
If you're talking about the Wheeling speech, there was no recording. Had there been there would be no controversy over what he said.
America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8Mb File Here (Requires RealPlayer)
"Mr. McCARTHY. Not until I have finished answering the question of the Senator from Illinois. The Senator called my attention to something, and I am glad he did; otherwise I might have overlooked it. Incidentally, the speech in Reno, Nev., and that in Wheeling, W. Va., were recorded, so there is no questionabout what I said. I do not believe I mentioned the figure 205. I believe I said 'over 200.' The President said, 'It is just a lie. There is nothing to it.'" (Congressional Record, Februay 20, 1950, pg. 1953, column 3)
"Mr McCARTHY. I ask at this time unanimous consent to be allowed to insert in the RECORD a copy of the speech which I made at Wheeling, W. Va., and at Reno, Nev. It was the same speech." (Congressional Record, Februay 20, 1950, pg. 1954, column 1)
The relevant part of the speech in question:
"I have in my hand 57 cases of individuals who would appear to be either card carrying members or certainly loyal to the Communist Party, but who nevertheless are still helping to shape our foreign policy." (Congressional Record, Februay 20, 1950, pg. 1956, column 2)
Your point in this controversy:
"Mr. LUCAS. I now repeat the same question I asked the able Senator in the beginning: Did the Senator from Wisconsin, in a speech at Wheeling, W. Va., THursday, February 9, declare that he had a list of 205 persons working for the State Department, who were known to be members of the Communist Party?
"Mr. McCARTHY. I may say, if the Senator is going to make a farce of this, I will not yield to him.
"Mr. LUCAS. No.
"Mr. McCARTHY. I told him three times. I read the speech to him. I told him I said there were 57 Communists in the State Department. I told him there were in the State Department 205, who, according to the President's own Security Board, are unsafe risks. They said, "Mr. Secretary, fire these men. Discharge them." He refused to do it. I quoted Secretary Byrnes' letter, telling him to do that. I shall not answer any more silly questions of the Senator. This is too important, too serious of a matter for that. I am trying to get down to the point of showing the Senate cases, facts, and dates, so that the President will admit that he went off half cocked in Illinois the other day when he said, as the President said, this is all lies, and tried to prejudge the case.
"Mr. LUCAS. This is pretty serious to the Senator from Illinois and it is serious to the Senate, and it is serious to the country. The only thing I am asking the able Senator is whether the newspapers misquoted him, and there is an editorial in the Washington Post, which is libelous if not true, in which the Senator is quoted in his speech at Wheeling, W. Va., as saying that he had a list of 205 persons working for the State Department who were carrying Communist Cards. What I want to know is merely one simple thing. I did not find anything in the speech to bear out what the newspaper reported to be true. The Senator keeps talking about 57; the newspaper says the Senator there said 205. That represents quite a difference, and it is of importance, whether the Senator from Wisconsin made the statement or did not make it. He can asnwer yes or no to that. He may say that in his speech he did not make that statement; he may have made it in a conference of some kind. But it was carried all over the country, through the Washington newspapers, the New York newspapers, and the Chicago newspapers, that the Senator said he could name the 205 who were carrying Communist cards. It may be a silly questions in the eyes of the Senator from Wisconsin, and that, as he said, I am trying to make a facre out of the thing, but it is a serious charge; the Senate and the country are entitled to know the facts.
"Mr. McCARTHY. May I answer the Senator's question?
"Mr. LUCAS. It is serious to me.
"Mr. McCARTHY. Let me answer the Senator's question, for the third time. I will tell the Senator, and I am no repeating it, if the Senator will sit down and give me the time to do it, that there are at least 57 Communists in the State Department. I think, without any trouble at all, with sufficient invesitgation, we can find the 205 for the Senator. As to what the Washington Post says, I do not know, and I frankly do not care. I think that is clear. I will not answer the Senator a fourth time. I have said there were 57 Communists in the State Department. I wired the President to that effect." (Congressional Record, Februay 20, 1950, pg. 1957, column 3, pg. 1958, column 1)
I encourage you to peruse the entire record of this debate. Congressional Record, February 20, 1950, pp. 1952-1981
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.